SemiOT- Tungsten vs. Depleted Uranium

[WolfLord]

In light of recent headlines concerning DU, does anyone know where I can find armor penetration values comparing DU to tungsten. There is a hot debate in relation to this on the CNN and MSNBC message boards. I need a few solid numbers to back my higher velocity/tungsten argument.

[StellarRat]

Calling all Rexford's! I'd like to know if DU works better because it's denser (adding mass to the round) or because it harder (or both). I keep thinking they use it as a core material to add mass, but the casing is some other hard material. Anyone?

[StellarRat]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StellarRat:

Calling all Rexford's! I'd like to know if DU works better because it's denser (adding mass to the round) or because it's harder (or both). I keep thinking they use it as a core material to add mass, but the casing is some other hard material. Anyone?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[-Havermeyer-]

May I... speculate?

The depleted U shot has a signifcantly lower melting point (~1000 F lower, or something). Given this bit o knowledge, I had asked an MP (duh, I know...) about the Gatling laying out next to the A-10, and specifically about a sample DU round. (Air show at the now shuttered Grissom air base in Indiana).

"What's the mass of this shot?"

*grunt*

"Why do you guys use it? Is it a matter of the denser element penetrating better, and bouncing around inside?"

*grunt*

"As the DU shot is spinning (high rotational velocity, for the MP I think I said spinning real fast), is it a matter of the shot liquifying on impact and spraying molten metal to the interior of the tank as it burns through the armor (i.e. decelerating VERY fast, converting all that potential to heat, sound, and light)?"

*smile*

He coulda been playing with me, but I've heard elsewhere that's what happens...

[Chupacabra]

IIRC DU dust is also highly pyrophagic (sp?), bursting into flame on contact with oxygen. Assuming that a tanker survives a penetrating hit on his tank by a DU round, he probably will have inhaled quite a bit of the dust, meaning all sorts of internal nastiness.

DU also may or may not have a rather dire environmental impact, depending on which study you look at.

Jane's has a faq on DU here.

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[RMC]

In addition to the pyrophroic effects of DU penetrators and slightly better pentration performance, I have read of one other reason it is used. Since DU is a byproduct from nuke powerplants we have accumulated quite a bit of the stuff. We import most of our tungsten from China who may or may not be disposed towards supplying us in time of war. Besides all of the heated discussion of DU and cancer and "radioactive countrysides" there is the disadvantage that is much more difficult (and dangerous) to machine and manufacture.

[WolfLord]

Thanks, Chupacabra,for that link. A short faq but most informative. As for environmental impacts of DU, some studies are now showing higher cancer rates among soldiers and civilians in areas where DU was used. These studies are mainly occuring in the former Yugoslavia.

[WolfLord]

Heh, just thought everyone would get a kick out of this. A guy on MSNBC quoted the following out of a Gulf War military FAQ...not sure why as I never doubted the effectiveness of DU...only that there were comparably effective and safer alternatives.

"The unit (part of the 24th Infantry Division) had gone on, leaving this tank(bogged in) to wait for a recovery vehicle. Three T-72s appeared and attacked. The first fired from under 1,000 meters, scoring a hit with a shaped-charge round on the M1A1s frontal armor. The hit did no damage. The M1A1 fired a 120mm armor-piercing DU round that penetrated the T-72 turret, causing an explosion that blew the turret into the air. The second T-72 fired another shaped-charge round, hit the frontal armor, and did no damage. The T-72 turned to run, and took a 120mm round in the engine compartment and blew the engine into the air. The last T-72 fired a solid shot round from 400 meters. This left a groove in the M1A1s frontal armor and bounced off. The T-72 then backed up behind a sand berm and was completely concealed from view. The M1A1 depressed its gun and put a sabot round through the berm, into the T-72, causing an explosion.[71]"