Michael Dorosh Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 ...that was talking about dismounted recces by Carrier crews, and their argument for inclusion of same in future editions of CM? In any event, I just got a reprint of the 1943 manual THE CARRIER PLATOON that has some very interesting info on how Carriers were used in combat in WW II. I take it the Commonwealth grogs (Germanboy shall be included here) are familiar with this, but it was quite eye opening for me. My question - has anyone tried to fight a Carrier Platoon in CM in the same manner as outlined by this pam (aside from dismounted recce, of course - though page 46 emphasizes "when in doubt, dismount" (direct quote)). Andreas, have you designed any scenarios in which the carrier platoon is integral to the player's success? Or were actual historical instances of the carrier platoon actually being used independently limited? I know of only one instance in the history of my own regiment in which the carrier platoon was used on its own to any great effect (though there may have been more). What was the experience in the British Army in NWE with regards to fighting the carrier platoon as an independent body? EDIT - would be interesting from an historical point of view to see a team rumble fought out by both sides using only historical doctrines - one player per platoon, and fighting "by the book" - both German and British. Makes me wonder how many actual practices make it into the repertoire of successful CM players (one of which I am most certainly not). Can one be an ultra-grog and an ultra-CM player simultaneously? [ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Mike, Carrier Pns in 2(NZ)Div were used semi-independantly reasonably often - mostly to cover open flanksm, IIRC. Tebaga and Takrouna are two examples that spring to mind. I sometimes try to use carriers in the same way (flank protection) - especially MMG carriers. It worked reasonably well in a Tilly la Champagne scenario. More often though, I use them as speedy, reliable (they don't bog as much as a full halftrack) transport for small teams such as FOOs (which is realistic in itself), mortars (again realistic - in particular for the 3"), etc. They are a bit flimsy, and their firepower isn't great enough, to use them directly except against weak or broken units. Pam sounds interesting. I expect it is similar to the stuff in the Handbook of British Forces? Regards JonS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 It might have been me although the recall is a little hazy. Certainly it's a subject of interest to me. Not only did the Bn have a carrier plt but the squadrons of the armoured car regiments also had carrier troops. Also a number of Brit armoured units seem to have formed ad hoc small "infantry" units in response to the tactical challenge of fighting in close country. Andreas is play testing a scenario of mine which has the carrier troop in it at the moment and I think one of his byte battles is built around a carrier platoon. Of course it is almost impossible to accurately model them since you can't dismount the Bren. I have experimented with using the Brit Glider troops to model dismounted recce units since I think that better reflects the weapon mix. You'll have to ask Andreas if he thinks it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 13, 2001 Author Share Posted December 13, 2001 OK, Andreas - I'm asking. JonS - would you believe I don't have a copy of the British Handbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Sorry...couldn't resist: [ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Michael, I am currently sitting here scratching my head (something my co-workers are used to from me), trying to figure out which Byte Battle Simon is talking about. As for his battle - I think it works well. The recon platoon are now all dead/maimed/POW, which is just dandy. Unfortunately I do not know the pamphlet you are talking about, but would be interested in the read. Regarding the old 'the carrier platoon restored the situation', I usually read that as 'my very mobile reserve platoon dashed there in their carriers, dismounted and restored the situation'. Whitaker in 'Tug of war' has some references to this. I don't think they fought mounted. Regarding recce - I use carriers quite a bit as OPs, and less as transport for teams. If you hide them in scattered trees they are quite difficult to spot. Until the battle from Simon came along I never thought much about using them as a way to get a recce platoon into position quickly, but depending on the map it works quite well. I think using them as back-up to the team is a bit 'gamey', since they have an extra Bren, which historically would not have been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 13, 2001 Author Share Posted December 13, 2001 Andreas, email me your snail mail address and I cn send you a photocopy if you like. I bought it as a reprint off of ebay - if you prefer, I can give you the guys' email addy - I think they are printed in the Netherlands and you might be able to get it for very cheap (I spent 10 bucks on the winning bid). That way you get it in book form. Bearing in mind, as you know, that the "book way" of doing things and the real way were often very different. nonetheless, there are interesting bits in there about track repair, battle drills, cresting, etc. It might be a good thing to subsidize the guy making the reprints, also - so let me know. Thanks all for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 Andreas, That would be "5th Glosters go East". I take it you haven't managed to kill the carrier troop yet? That's recce troop to not "platoon", I suggest you correct your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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