Tontoman Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Great, I don't check the board for a couple of days and look what I miss (what I get for playing too much CM). If you have any slots I'm in (I'm fine for playing Germans if you need more to fill in) Ahh, sit back with a beer and light up a Sherman peteal@sympatico.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 one more for the axis. lindan@jagdtiger.de ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com www.jagdtiger.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 Some interesting questions from Pascal DI FOLCO: How will be played engagements (assaults) between a "player" force and a non player one ? As solo games, or with (randomly designated ?) player to take control of non player forces, or will you play all the non-player forces (which will be difficult even if you don't sleep any more) ?? I missed that point in the post, perhaps because it's soooo long ! You said that you'll be playing 2 Normandy'44 turns per week : are we supposed to play our CM games in 3 days ? It's not feasible with email games, and even online I'll have difficulties playing a game so fast except for "week end" turns...As I'm in France, and works full-time (or nearry so , I can play from say 21.00 to 23.00 GMT, that's in the afternoon for the majority of Americans that would be playing ! Agreed it weould be very difficult to finish a PBEM in the time alloted. So almost all scenarios will be solo games against the A/I. So you'll have either 4 evenings or all of "le weekend" to complete a 30 - 40 turn CM scenario against the computer. Possible? There are two reasons why this should not be a problem. 1) In an evenly matched game, the difference between a good human player and the A/I is substantial. The good human player almost always "wins." But in this campaign, evenly matched scenarios will, I believe, be very rare. One side or the other will usually greatly outnumber the other. As in real life. Neither side will execute an attack without a much better than 1.4 to 1 or 1.8 to 1 advantage. Probably more like 3 to 1 or more.So the scenarios will NOT be evenly matched in the sense that a CM QB is evenly matched. and 2) In a campaign, the goal is not only to win but to win with minimum casualties. Every casualty taken in a scenario in this campaign will be lost for the entire rest of the campaign! (Yes, Normandy '44 does provide for some replacements, and these will be incorporated into your units as they become available.) Anybody (after some practice) can win a CM QB against the A/I if they are willing to take 30-40-50% casualties or more. But if you do that a couple of times in this campaign, you will "wipe out" your unit, for all intents and purposes. So even a mediocre A/I can "grind down" a superior unit led by a good, experienced player over the course of several battles. Long term minimization of casualties will be very important in this game and a real challenge to players (like myself) who are used to the "damn the casualties, take the flag" style of play. And another thing worries me : I don't know of the possibility to "input" battle results in Normandy44, these are only computer-generated, so how will you manage it ?? Have faith, mon ami. At the end of each player turn, I save the scenario. I can then load that into the Scenario Editor and edit anything about any unit, including strength, position, supply status, anything. I save it with the changes and load it for the next player turn. Simple, non? (Pardon moi, just having some fun revisiting my very bad high school French.) Lastly is there the possibility for you to create a website about this : for example 2 pages with passwords (axis/allies) that would contain the debriefings, war news, battle results, ... It would make for a livelier campaign, but I know that this takes hard work and time - again ! Indeed it would. Perhaps I can find someone who will help with this. I feel I must concentrate on refereeing the game until I see how much work it will be. Hope this answers some questions and concerns that many of you might have. L4Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord General MB Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Sir, Sooooo... When can we be expected to take up arms for the country we picked? (i.e start playing) ------------------ Salute! Lord General Mr. Bill Supreme Commander 1st Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 Originally posted by Lord General MB: Sir, Sooooo... When can we be expected to take up arms for the country we picked? (i.e start playing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 The screwed up message above was supposed to contain the information that we're waiting for topo maps of Normandy from Moon at GamesofWar.de. I did the annoucement one month after placing the order for the maps thinking that would be enough time for them to be on the way. Turns out there was a glitch with the order so they should be on the way "soon" So 2 - 3 weeks?? I hope, at the most. Just pretend it's May 15th, 1944. [This message has been edited by L4Pilot (edited 02-07-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk-vfa201 Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 L4, sent you an email time ago. I hope then to hear from you soon. À tres bientôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 We talked about how to do the briefings and such for the individual sides, any decisions on that yet? LIke I said, my HTML skills are zilch, but I would pull out of the campaign to help write them up or edit reports if you need a hand with it. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Any word on this? I was also wondering if I could suggest an additional feature - Perhaps we could do something like the old "Campaign Game" from Squad Leader - where each player gets a Leader counter (in this case, a platoon commander unit). He could have it named after him, and have the modifiers set to zero - and have his ratings increase as the campaign progresses, based on his "performance" - we could come up with a system, perhaps based on the number of casualties suffered by his platoon, number of kills inflicted, with bonuses for AFVs knocked out or pillboxes destroyed, etc. I am assuming the scenarios are being edited by hand anyway; these might be a nice touch to give the player a bit more of a personal contact with the game. Worth discussing? What it would mean to the person setting up the scenario is ensuring one of the platoon commanders was renamed, and have his ratings set to the proper level. You could also have his experience level change as well. At the end of a battle, the player would have to look at the info screens of the three squads (and supporting weapons) assigned to his platoon to see how many casualties they suffered, and how many kills they inflicted. We'd need to come up with a scale that indicates how this would affect his improvement. If the platoon HQ was wiped out, the character could be considered either dead, or wounded with a chance to return later. Anyone think there is merit to this? Might make things interesting. Perhaps the game master would consider awarding medals/badges etc. to worthy platoon commanders based on their AARs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Multiple post [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 02-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Edit -triple post [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 02-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 The more I think about the "campaign game" the more I like it - I'd be willing to do the administration and liase with any other players interested in it. If anyone has any suggestions, etc,. please email me. I am picturing a progression in skill as outlined above - could put up a web page with a listing of player's names, plus their "achievements", stats and decorations. Would be easy to do and I'd be happy to administer this part. For Germans, surviving 3 battles with your "character" would get you the Infantry Assault Badge, if the Platoon HQ with your name on it showed an AFV Kill, you would get a Tank Destruction Badge, plus we could work out a system for qualifying for the Iron Cross in its various grades. Wounds Badge would be a natural, too. US characters would qualify for the Combat Infantry Badge, Purple Heart if wounded, Bronze Star, Silver Star, DSC, Medal of Honor (would need to make that very hard to get). Brit/Canadians would have Wound Stripes, Military Crosses, Mention in Despatches and for something truly heroic (like amassing 50 "Kills" between his three squads in a single game) possibly the VC. Anyone interested in hashing this out further let me know. If anyone else has come up with a workable system and I have just not seen it online yet, please point me in the right direction. [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 02-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Bored Bump. I've bashed together some "rules" for this and will try and upload to my server tonight. Thanks to the interested persons who emailed me; I'll get in touch with you directly. Anyone else care to comment on this, or advise me of similar creations already in existence? ------------------ http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 14, 2001 Author Share Posted February 14, 2001 First the good news: Moon has indicated that he expects to have the maps to ship any time now. I'm expecting confirmation of his receiving them any moment now. Re: Michael Dorosh's suggestion about player commander units, I think it's very interesting, though a little beyond the scope of what I can do. Let me suggest what I can do, based on his suggestions and solicit comments. I can customize the Company Commander. with each player's desired name. I will also give each player 4 "points" of command attributes to be allocated as they see fit among command, combat, morale and stealth abilities. So +2 in two categories or +1 in four, or whatever. This reflects the fact that anyone with the intelligence and foresight to sign up for this campaign is obviously a superior combat commander and his stats should reflect that! For armored companies, the V-1 vehicle will be the commanders vehicle and get a one level upgrade to the unit experience rating. But that is YOUR unit. You will be the last man standing in that unit, but if it's eliminated, well, ah, we'll see how your "recuperation from wounds" goes. And if it's captured well, ah, ...... Tracking performance to determine attribute increases is beyond me, I think. I can't think of any objective standards that would apply. And medals? Well, the same thing is true. Perhaps Michael Dorosh will act as the commendations and awards committee. Maybe players should write up "recommendations" for conspicuous bravery, and let him hand out the appropriate awards. How's that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Room for one more shooter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 cannon fodder platoon leader ready.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord General MB Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Sir, Ohoh! I can't wait....... Just "Soon" that sums up to anywere from 5-6 years. Just joking with yah! ------------------ Salute! Lord General Mr. Bill Supreme Commander 1st Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Is it to late to join in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Oh if it's not to late i'll take Axis. Cheerz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Norton Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 L4P, you have seemed to hit a real nerve with your idea. The "volunteers" continue to stagger in. With this extended operation (which is what the concept amounts too) you might be on the brink of a new game concept for CMBO and for that matter the future CM's. The "strategic" game generates objectives for the operational level front. The "strategic" game issues out supply and various assets to the operational commands for the execution of the operation. Then, the game goes from the hollow halls of the generals to us warriors. Now we know the current mind set for CM is to not portray operations over more than a few days, as the causality rates would make such efforts unrealistic. However, you are getting around that, by allowing for a combat rotation of units as the strategic game develops the fight. So while the player will have a command of say a battalion his unit will be reinforced or pulled out of the line when ordered at the higher command level. So, if your strategic game (engine) works, well L4, you got game! Wow.... ------------------ "The Legitimate object of war is a more perfect peace." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Update, some responses and a question for the group. Moon is still looking into it but was disappointed with regard to immediate arrival of the maps. Ah, well. For those (Thermopylae, Boozer, Roberto) who most recently inquired, I'm adding people in date order of request. So it's certainly possible I can add you but it won't be at the beginning of the campaign. And I won't know until the campaign is under way for a while. I'm trying to be as inclusive as I can of both players and ideas, within the limits of my time. A question for the group: Should we begin this without the topo maps. They are (1:24000 scale) so the area covered by one 1km Normandy '44 hex will be about 4 cm x 4 cm on the topo maps - a little under 2 inches by 2 inches. Will I get enough extra detail off this sized area to justify waiting for the maps? Consider that the Normandy '44 map already gives generic terrain information for each hex such as elevation, and type: clear, forest, bocage, town, village, farmland, orchard, and several others. It also presents info on main and secondary roads, trails, watersheds, bridge capacities (!), railways, fortification levels, and other neat stuff. So will this suffice until the topo maps arrive or should we wait? Let's see if there is a consensus. And I've been hitting the D-Day books, looking for info and anecdotes to be able to add "color" to the unit activity descriptions I provide. Unfortunately for some of you allied volunteers, I found a neat book called Beyond the Beachhead (IIRC. I'll edit it if I find out differently) story of the 29th Infantry Division that landed at Omaha. Now I've just got to dig out my copy of Steel Inferno to refresh myself on the Axis side. Any other suggestions? And Thomas Norton, I think you've hit it. I hope I can make your analysis correct. John Tiller, designer of the Panzer Campaign series has already done the hard work. There have two other games in the series (Smolensk and Kharkov) already and HPS seems to be alternating between West Front and Russian Front. Maybe someone will want to try something similar with one of these when CM2 is available, although the Eastern Front PanzerCampaign games are battalion sized units. . We'll see. Stay tuned. L4Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I have absolutely no preference as to whether we play on "historically accurate" maps or not. Let's just get going. As Montgomery said on 5 June - "Go. I say Go." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I agree, let's get it going....regardless of maps or not. ------------------ Go thou, and fill another room in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I would also say to start without the topo maps. A suggestion: While customizing Company Commander abilities sounds like fun, it is actually a pain in the butt. Leave it random. Keep it simple for the first run. Complicate it later... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Originally posted by L4Pilot: Update, some responses and a question for the group. A question for the group: Should we begin this without the topo maps. They are (1:24000 scale) so the area covered by one 1km Normandy '44 hex will be about 4 cm x 4 cm on the topo maps - a little under 2 inches by 2 inches. Will I get enough extra detail off this sized area to justify waiting for the maps L4Pilot IMO, it isn't worth it. I would rather go with "standardized" maps for each terrain type, such as the *not to be named WW2 tac game* maps converted to CM I got on a now deceased website... I'm unsure you can easily find WW2 era maps with more detail than 1/25000. I'm French, I can easily get recent topo maps, but roads, towns, woods etc... have MUCH changed here in 50 years, and they won't be usable as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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