Routed Units

[KiwiJoe]

I'm starting to wounder if "routing" is modeled right. Routing by its name suggests the unit totally abandons the fight, and the army, by running for the hills to save its life. This differs from "breaking" which simply means getting the hell out of a hot spot, or "panicing" which means hitting the dirt for a short period.

I think routed units should, more often than not, drop their weapons as the run away. They have in fact abandoned all hope of continued fighting and are intent on simplying fleeing as far and as fast as possable. I would suggest that they should also quite often run off the map. Surely if caught by HQ units they would later be court-marshalled for their actions so they wouldnt be sticking around friendly units.

And finally I think they "unrout" too quickly. It typically takes at MAX 10 turns to unrout... even as litle as 3-4 some times. Thats an average of maybe 5 mins to rout, and then be completely ready to rejoin the fight. Doesn't seem like much time to me.

[Mlapanzer]

Some good points about rallying to quick. But i have seen routed units leave the map if still under pressure from the enemy.

I would have to disagree about routed units dropping there weapons and fleeing. From most accounts I have read men who even suffered from severe battle fatigue would not give up there weapons. Of course I mean rifles and such not crew served weapons.Many men who routed in one battle or even the same battle would go on to recover and give good accounts of themselves.

One way I like to keep units from rallying is to drop arty on them. Any fire on a routed or broken unit will continue and worsen the situation for them.

Very few men Routed totally out of the army that would be dissertion. From what I have read men who routed we're not austicized by other troops. Maybe because they could understand the pressure those men were under.

[LimShady]

Originally posted by Mlapanzer:

Of course I mean rifles and such not crew served weapons.

Of course in CM, the .50 cal crew will lug the MG all over the map...

LimShady

[KiwiJoe]

Yeah Lim... I think HMGs should be treated like AT/IF guns and mortars... if the crew breaks the weapon is left behind.

Mlapanzer you may be right about dropping weapons. I would think if you had a pistol or smg youd keep hold of it. But a bolt action rifle I'm not so sure. A routed unit surely has completely given up the fight and is running AWAY from the enemy. Speed is the key not firepower. Personally Id drop a heavy rifle to get the hell out of there as fast as I could.

I think routed units not under HQ command should stay routed for the entire battle. 20-30 mins is not a long time. If under HQ command they should have a SMALL chance of "unrouting".

In my mind routing is an extreme act (not to be confused with "breaking") that should basically end your involvement in the battle.

[Mlapanzer]

I agree a routed unit not in command should stay routed. That's what Co's are good for.

HMG's should abandon when they route.

As for the dropping weapons some chance of dropping or keeping them. You can't say everyone would drop and run or everyone would keep them. It's just that it is so engrained in a soldier the importance of that rifle. I would say that when your routed and the adreniline is pumping you don't even notice the weight of a rifle much.

Maybe the keeping or dropping of a weapon would depend on the quality of the unit. A green ill trained soldierwould be more likely to drop and run.

[KiwiJoe]

I'd be foe that Mlapanzer. Anything that makes quality units a better buy is all good

[Guest Martin Cracauer]

While we are at it, what I would like to have modeld is a non-breaking, organized, fighting retreat against player orders.

I read much about WW1/WW2 small units actions and the number of times a platton or even company retreated to a safer spot on behalf of its own is quite big. These units don't break or route, they are functioning normal after retreat, they just avoid the fight, saying they retreated because they had to.

The opening chapters of Rommel's infantry "attacks" book are an example.

Modeling this in CM would be some effort. Since this is an organized retreat, the per-unit TacAI would not be sufficient to model it. Instead, control of a whole platoon, possible with other units nearby, would for the time being have to be placed under program logic similar to the computed opponent.

On the other hand, I think that the decision when to do this would not open the can of worms it seems on first sight. Relativly very strong enemy units approaching, not delayed when fired on. If there is a better position behind, do a fighting retreat. "Better position" judgement would reuse program logic from the computed opponent.

The fighting retreat reminds me that CMBO is missing infantry and heavy weapons commands for "reverse". That would be useful for such retreats, but it would be even more useful for guns that could pull out of their position when they got spotted (and possible embark to a vehicle that stands behind them without a 180 degrees turn).

[This message has been edited by Martin Cracauer (edited 03-26-2001).]