Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Doing a 2000 pt large map PBEM ME and am about 5 turns into it. Zero casualties yet and some nice long range Greyhound KO hits on enemy Marders. Question is why is my global morale going down? Started the game at 96% and now is down to 83%. I have not taken all VLs yet (there are 2 large and 2 small). I have had Shermans pop smoke and back away from a Panther? after a turret ricochet. Not quite sure what to make of it. So I'll put it to the CM community and see what happens... ...Maybe I am losing already and just don't know it yet or my guys just ate bad food rations Ideas or similar experiences? [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Perdido Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sarge Saunders: Question is why is my global morale going down? Started the game at 96% and now is down to 83%. I have not taken all VLs yet (there are 2 large and 2 small).<hr></blockquote> If you don't have any casualties (the main cause of lowered morale), do you have any split squads? That lowers global morale (since half-squads are more jittery than full squads). Agua Perdido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 I thought about the split squads morale hit. I only have 2 split squads (total 4 teams) out of 6 entire platoons un-split. Am aware of some discussion about split squads / morale hit previously, but this seems a pretty big hit for 4 teams... One thing I noticed is that my commanders have very few bravery bonuses. Or maybe my oppenent has captured other VLs and I do not know it yet. Really curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 As I read more posts on this subject from the past year, it does seem that split squads is the likely culprit. I am probably not alone in thinking this as a somewhat heavy penalty for splitting a couple of squads out for recon, but alas it is a great game nevertheless. Any other ideas? Otherwise I will chalk this up to a squad split. Too bad, I liked the idea of a pre-battle bad food ration morale hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sarge Saunders: I am probably not alone in thinking this as a somewhat heavy penalty for splitting a couple of squads out for recon, but alas it is a great game nevertheless.<hr></blockquote> not sure how your morale would be when you witness a select few being sent out for recon as living targets to see who's shooting at them... either way, remember, you get that morale minus back once you rejoin them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by M Hofbauer: not sure how your morale would be when you witness a select few being sent out for recon as living targets to see who's shooting at them... <hr></blockquote> No...NO. I wouldn't waste good GIs on something like that. Just split out about 50 meters ahead of my platoons in the woods. More like a point patrol than anything else. Besides, getting shot at to expose enemy units is what Greyhounds and such are for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 The split squad morale loss looks like a simple bug. Because you loose victory points as well, and in that case I can see that you loose *exactly* as many victory points as the second half sqaud is worth. For sure two split squads cannot make a 2000 points game drop to 83% just because of the splitting. I did not research CMBO's morale computing and cannot offer more suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 Agreed redwolf. It is really no big deal as I tend to re-form my squads once contact is made. That is when Morale counts... ...I think that the Morale computation is a bit of a mystery to all but BTS. We know what generally makes morale go down (casualties), but I have never run across the split squad morale hit before. It makes sense in some circumstances and would tend to penalize "gamey" use of split squads such as splitting up infantry to make it appear as twice the number of men in FFOW or such debatable tactics. [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sarge Saunders: ...I think that the Morale computation is a bit of a mystery to all but BTS. We know what generally makes morale go down (casualties), but I have never run across the split squad morale hit before. It makes sense in some circumstances and would tend to penalize "gamey" use of split squads such as splitting up infantry to make it appear as twice the number of men in FFOW or such debatable tactics. <hr></blockquote> In split squads the second half just isn't counted as alife, that explains the morale drop. I have seen quite a few hints that morale is either very complex or even a bit broken. Some goes for VL control and freeing prisoners which is probably connected to a kind of "local" morale. Not a big deal. I want the exact victory point formular, since at least scenario designers need it, but I actually like some randomness in morale and even exact VL control. I don't want to know how much stuff exactly I need at a VL, I want to be forced to push as much as possible there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 Yeah Redwolf. I think that if the exact computation for Morale, Victory, and VL control radius, etc. would be nice for all us CM fanatics. But it would open up the possiblity for very "gamey" opponents to use that knowledge (instead of actual tactical skill and luck) to win. Then it would become just like so many other war games that, once "THE TRICK" is learned, are easy to win. In fact, hearing about the random endgame feature discussed in CMBB would go a long way to helpng in matters like this. [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ] [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Wow! The good info on this BBS is amazing! I'm playing a scenario in which my global morale started at only 70% I was perplexed and couldn't figure out why this was the case. But thanks to you guys I realized it's because I have split squads in foxholes all over the map. That's good info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sarge Saunders: Yeah Redwolf. I think that if the exact computation for Morale, Victory, and VL control radius, etc. would be nice for all us CM fanatics. But it would open up the possiblity for very "gamey" opponents to use that knowledge (instead of actual tactical skill and luck) to win. Then it would become just like so many other war games that, once "THE TRICK" is learned, are easy to win. In fact, hearing about the random endgame feature discussed in CMBB would go a long way to helpng in matters like this. <hr></blockquote> I said I didn't want the exact morale and VL possesion formulas to be known, but I think we (especially scenario designers) need the victory point formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf: I said I didn't want the exact morale and VL possesion formulas to be known, but I think we (especially scenario designers) need the victory point formula.<hr></blockquote> Sorry to misunderstand. That's a good point. Isn't Victory Point based on VLs and casualties for the most part? I suppose it should be exact by numbers (eg. 115 pt Sherman KOed = 12 victory points)... ...I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts