Blenheim Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Yes, I know. I will have to wait for a couple of centuries before I see that game... But I want it. God, I want see the Borodino fortifications through the eyes of a french soldier.... Any ideas about how this could be done ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Pray Blemheim, pray. Someone out there should be able to figure it out. Maybe someone could lease the CM engine for a Napoleonic game(s). Pray real hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 OH yes, another Napoleonic fan. Are there others?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Raises hand! The Unofficial Battleground Waterloo site: www.trowbridge.freeserve.co.uk I happen to know that Tom Klimisch and Blackhorse are Napoleonic gaming vets too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 I'd buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Originally posted by Blenheim: Yes, I know. I will have to wait for a couple of centuries before I see that game... But I want it. God, I want see the Borodino fortifications through the eyes of a french soldier.... Any ideas about how this could be done ? Mmmmm count me in. In the meantime, Breakaway Games Waterloo looks promising. I can help you with a 3D view of the Grand Redoubt at Borodino, because I've started a CM operation map based on that battle, which I'll be posting on my site (coming soon!). I can't help with the French soldiers though, sorry. Waterloo is done and is available somewhere, but I'll put that up on my site too, when it's ready. I'm satisfying my Napoleonic obsession at he moment by adapting a set of tabletop rules to use with the Battleground series in editor mode. Yes, I am quite mad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 And while you are at make sure it supports The War between the States (thats Civil War to all you Yankees). MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 It would be nice. I'm afraid the best we presently have to look forward to is the Waterloo title fast approaching from Matrix Games. I don't expect awful good game play from this one as command control has been abstracted to silliness--indeed, one wonders if anything useful has been learned at all (and implemented, of course) from the first two "Sid Meier" Civil War games which used the same basic engine. Perhaps, but I'm not holding my breath. There are several interesting threads which deal with this topic over on the Computer Games Online war forum. www.cdmag.com/ Enjoy! [This message has been edited by Tris (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Well, if an "Age of Empires-type" game will work for ya, there's a new 3D accelerated game coming out by CDV Software Entertainment AG and GSC Game World. It's called Cossacks: European Wars that covers the 16th to 18th Centuries. It plays almost identical to AoEII, but there is ALOT more gunpower-type troops, so it is not all hack-n-slash. It has some very impressive special effects with 3D accelerated explosions and stuff. Being 3D accelerated is runs super smooth, even when AoEII ran choppy on my machine and the graphics are better to boot! I would say that this game will topple AoEII as the #1 historical RTS. The game contains 16 different countries and each country has their OWN troop types. And their OWN building set, with the minor exception of things like mines and storage buildings (AoEII's equivalent of Rock Mines and Lumber Mills) There is a Demo available that weighs in at 46MB, and it only offers a Random Map skirmish between two or more Spanish Armies. If you liked AoEII, you'll love Cossacks: European Wars. Go check out their website at http://www.cossacks.de/english/cossacks/index.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 While not being a fan of RTS games, I will say that Cossacks: European Wars is impressive to me. Too bad it stops before the French Revolution and the Napoleonic era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 I cut my wargaming teeth on Napolenonic miniatures 30 years ago ... but I won't be holding my breath for a CM Napoleonic game, as good as it would be. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Boy oh boy, dont even get me started on how much I would love a game like that! I can just see it, too, in 10 years or so, the thousands of perfectly rendered digital soldiers as far as the virtual eye can see. Massive cavalry charges, cannon barrages, skirmisher shoot-outs... Meanwhile, Im playing the Battleground series by Talonsoft and enjoying it greatly, even if it is "2D". BTW - Anyone here have the Napoleonic games and care for a PBEM? Crushing Napoleon at Borodino is starting to get easy ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Commisar, Greg Gorusch has done an excellent Eylau mod for the BG series. New map, new units, everything. Check it out. If you have any of the ACW titles, there's a Mexican War mod for those too. I'm not sure what info I'm allowed to give out, but look for more age of musket titles from John Tiller in the forseeable future. They won't be CM with Napoleonics, but they'll fill a void. I had the pleasure to research the OOB for one of the battles, so it is coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Babra, John Tiller is the MAN! Not only are all his products top of the line, the extensive research documents he includes with each game are a great source of knowledge and a pleasure to read. Thanks again! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: Babra, John Tiller is the MAN! Not only are all his products top of the line, I wouldn't call his Napoleonic games top of the line at all. There are some very dodgy things happening within the Battleground engine, which are not at all supported by my own readings. A good game it may be, but a good recreation of Napoleonic Warfare it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 I agree about the Battleground engine, particularly the way routing units are treated. I remember at Waterloo when I broke the Allied line, some units were routed and then rallied half a dozen times or more. There was no detriment to them once they had reached maximum fatigue as there were no losses to stragglers etc. I also noticed some very unlikely combat results where infantry in line slaughtered fresh charging cavalry in melee etc and the AI is pretty average. It was good for it's time though. IMHO I can't possibly imagine a CM type Napoleonic game for many years, if the engine cannot depict a 12 man squad due to hardware limitations, I wouldn't hold out much hope to see entire 20,000 man Corps or two on screen! ------------------ "You wanna be starting something?" - Michael Jackson [This message has been edited by Rex_Bellator (edited 02-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 The BG engine and its offshoots were flawed, to be sure. But for a while, a long while, they were the only Nappy titles to be had anywhere, from anyone. I got many, many enjoyable hours out of them. Still do when the mood strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 WOW! This thread is the true mark (...and literal definition...) of a grognard! ------------------ And King Xerxes looked to King Leonidas and spoke. "Our Archers will rain arrows down upon you to blot out the sun." And King Leonidas replied: "Then we will fight in the shade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 /me raises hand for Napoleonics! What about using the Shogun engine? [This message has been edited by stodge (edited 02-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Yes, the BG series was flawed, but technically what computer game isn't? They're on my HD too, BTW. The game developers do the best that they can with what they have at the time. AND TalonSoft (at the time) was the top. I am grateful for what they did. My idea is a 1 fig to 60 ratio for a Napoleonic game like "Empire V". OR it could just be a 1:5 ratio game like "Chef de baitallon" by Scott Bowden -one or two battalion vs. one or two battalions kind of thing. What BTS has done could spark a revolution of sorts. A bigger one, I mean. CMBO and the arrival of CM2 will be a marker of change. I may want some things for CMBO, but I rather have CM2. Hey, BTS has spoiled us. Isn't it nice? "Spoiled is good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Originally posted by Space Thing: They're on my HD too, BTW. The game developers do the best that they can with what they have at the time. AND TalonSoft (at the time) was the top. Well, it's easy to be top when there's precious little by way of competition, and the problems I find with the BG Napoleonic system are nothing to do with what was and wasn't state of the art at the time, but more to do with design decisions that are just part of the number-crunching. Having said that, I think the entire series was beautiful, especially with the 32-bit upgrades applied (all three are still on my hard drive too, but more as a virtual tabletop). Visually, the games are a treat; 3D is nice, but it's not necessary for a wonderful game. In fact, if the faults in the BGW engine were fixed but the look and feel left as it is, I'd buy it again without hesitation. It's just that the unrealistic results that occurred in the game spoiled the playability for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Originally posted by Forever Babra: The BG engine and its offshoots were flawed, to be sure. But for a while, a long while, they were the only Nappy titles to be had anywhere, from anyone. I got many, many enjoyable hours out of them. Still do when the mood strikes. You're right. In fact, given the following that the BGN series still seems to have, I'm surprised that the Napoleonic era is such a poor relation to WW2. Nobody seems to be interested in making a decent stab at it, yet I imagine that a Napoleonic game would provide fewer technical challenges than a WW2 game. I suppose what we need is a blockbusting Waterloo/Borodino/Austerlitz movie... What I'd like to see someone do...(drifting off into the realm of pure fantasy)...would be for a Steel panthers treatment; concentrate on giving players the units, the commanders and a good, realistic, engine, combined with a map, repeat, map and scenario editor, and let the players create their own battles and OBs. I'm positive that there wouldn't be any shortage... [This message has been edited by Holdit (edited 02-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Originally posted by Holdit: What I'd like to see someone do...(drifting off into the realm of pure fantasy)...would be for a Steel panthers treatment; concentrate on giving players the units, the commanders and a good, realistic, engine, combined with a map, repreat, map and scenario editor, and let the players create their own battles and OBs. I positive that there wouldn't be any shortage... Holdit right there! That is pure genius! I guess that a game that is not 3D like CMBO can be a great game if it was focused on an exciting time period- like the Napoleonic era. Great idea Holdit. Man, I gotta win that Lotto! I really do. Jumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Originally posted by Jumbo: That is pure genius! ...Great idea Holdit. Jumbo But of course... Seriously, though, I think too much emphasis is placed on the deatils of this or that battle, to the detriment of the game itself. Miniature gamers have for years been recreating lesser-known but nevertheless fascinating smaller engagements like Liebertwolkwitz, Sabugal, Maida etc. Miniature wargames magazines regularly contain historical details of and hints on how to wargame various actions, but a computer gamer, lacking the correct tools, can rarely make anything of it. Man, I gotta win that Lotto! I really do. We're of one mind. It's a nice dream, isn't it? I actually started writing a Napoleonic program once as an experiment, but it soon proved to be beyond my meagre skills. I've since learned some C++, so I might have another go if I ever find the time. The trouble is, it would be an engine with no graphics, and as such purely academic exercise... Edited due to chronic absentmindedness. [This message has been edited by Holdit (edited 02-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blenheim Posted February 20, 2001 Author Share Posted February 20, 2001 God, and I though I was a freak enjoying that old fashioned battles.... Wooow. So many napoleonic fans. Great, I feel better now, I am not a guy who was born in the wrong century. Well, about the games... I just would love to see Shogun-like Napoleonic battles!!! Somebody get a license of that engine. The only sad stuff is that Shogun was rather unrealistic sometimes, but... well, things can be improved. I agree with all that has been said about Battleground series. Pretty good, not perfect; true. By the way... I had wonderfull times a couple of computer centuries ago with "Fields of Glory"... Does anybody remember it? Comments? I loved the feeling of charging a disordered infantry battalion with my curassiers. Not "CMBO-level" realism, but pretty good. ------------------ "We do not retreat... we advance to the back of the formation..." (brave new soldier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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