Nathman Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 With the 1.12 patch, there is now an option to have unrestricted limits when purchasing units, except in the case of artillery. Why was artillery singled out as still having the point restrictions in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Nathman: With the 1.12 patch, there is now an option to have unrestricted limits when purchasing units, except in the case of artillery. Why was artillery singled out as still having the point restrictions in place? Counterquestion : Would you spend your full points for artillery? ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Another counter question: Is there a *game* with unlimited artillery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathman Posted February 10, 2001 Author Share Posted February 10, 2001 Scipio, the answer would be no, just as I wouldn't spend all my points on armor, infantry, etc etc, however that misses the point. BTS gives us the freedom to spend a disproportionate amount of points on all categories except artillery and I'm just asking why. I'm just curious - nothing more, nothing less. There are times when I think it would be interesting to simulate a situation in where a platoon might be cut off but yet have the support of a disproportionate amount of artillery available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I'd obviously never spend all my points on arty, but there have been numerous times when I wish I could have bought more than the allowable amount. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>- Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 man they still give you a ton of points for arty. You could have 10 150mm nebelwefers!!! Probably would make CMBO crash!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Well I think that this can be one of the reasons. I made some scenarios myself to see what impact the heavy arti could have on a CM scale battle. Try this for yourself,14 inch naval artillery 2 guys cost you about 1500 points give them enough ammo and they will blow away 3 intire companies of infantry,if proper used. I watched where the shells dropped down I saw one fell between two crack sturmgruppesquads ,they were all dead at once 26 man with one shell. And although they were crack units they do panick after a few rounds. So to many artillery can have a great impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check6 Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I tested 14" and 8" guns against a dug-in Sturmgruppe company spanning a hundred meters. The first 14" shell landed about 30m off target, thus 80m away from some units, and killed every man in the company. Not the first volley, the first shell. The first 8" shell was about 10m off target (these missions were fired with TRPs). It wiped out all but about 8 men, and the second shell finished the job. And these guys were in foxholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathman Posted February 11, 2001 Author Share Posted February 11, 2001 I found out the hard way the effects of a 14" shell burst while playing the Omaha Beach scenario. My 14" FO miraculously made it to the beach and I had him target a pillbox. The first round fell "a little" short and wiped out 150 of my troops, so I'm aware of the killing power of large caliber shells in the game. An example of what I am talking about is that in a 1000 pt meeting engagement with unrestricted selected, I still can't purchase a single 105mm VT FO. Since BTS allows maximum points to be spent on other categories, why exclude artillery? Besides, aren't the point values of all the units in the game proportionate to their capabilities, hence the high cost of FO's? It's not a big deal, and I'm bringing up the question merely as a point of curiousity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 S Originally posted by Mr. Johnson-<THC>-: man they still give you a ton of points for arty. You could have 10 150mm nebelwefers!!! Probably would make CMBO crash!! The only problem with the Nebelwerfer is: it hits everything on the map, except the target ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 So that when the AI makes a random force selection, it has some manuever units. Pretty obvious to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathman Posted February 11, 2001 Author Share Posted February 11, 2001 Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: So that when the AI makes a random force selection, it has some manuever units. Pretty obvious to me... The "unrestricted" option can be set separately for either allies or axis. For example, If I decide to play the axis side against the AI playing the allies, I would select unrestricted for myself so as to get a disproportionate amount of artillery (which I can't do and is the point of this question), and either combined, armor, or combined arms for the allies, played by the AI, depending on what situation I'm trying to simulate. Having a hypothetical unrestricted artillery option for myself bears zero relevance upon the force makeup the AI chooses to make. I'm not sure why it is obvious to you that the reason they don't allow unrestricted artillery is because the AI wouldn't choose manuevere units. Even if I did select "unrestricted" for the AI, why would the AI not choose manuever units? Are you saying that the AI would forgo manuever units in favor of artillery? What do you base this on and what am I missing that makes this obvious to you? Please enlighten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 The AI chooses randomly. With the old category restrictions, like "combined arms", it has to pick in a certain mix, so it will pick mixes forces in reasonable ways. With "unrestricted", it can pick anything. And it still picks randomly. So any mix of items that uses up all the points is possible. It is not picking according to any "strategy". It comes up with its strategy after it sees what it has, and its mission. If artillery had no point limit, then it could indeed randomly blow 240 points on one 105mm veteran FO, and 240 more on a second one, and then have 40 points left for the rest of its 500 point force. So, it could take one MMG and a Jeep, say. Well, that isn't much of a force. "But I can tell it to take infantry, and then why can't I take all the arty I want?" If you want to take all the arty you want, make a scenario in which you have all the arty you want. The reason for the "unrestricted" option is more to provide less info to the player about what he is up against, than to let him assemble dream teams. Dream teams you can assembly any time you want in scenarios. The quick battle routines are about providing an unknown enemy. The force % breadowns are guides to historical mixes of forces and there as much for the AI as for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 We left Artillery restricted to keep somone for only buying all FO's for example. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 You can buy more artillery with the "unrestriced" option than you can with any other. I think that allowing 100% would only lead to 20 turn of shelling beforing moving in a platoon too poke with a stick in the rubble and take a few wounded and shell-shocked soldiers prisoner. ------------------ SS-Weihnachtsgrenadiere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Originally posted by Scipio: Counterquestion : Would you spend your full points for artillery?No, I'd use about 150pts on a rifle/SMG platoon and two sharpshooters. Then I'd get a couple of TRPs. The rest could be artillery... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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