Recon by Fire

[rexford]

WW II recon would sometimes be accomplished by firing into a suspected hiding place to generate some return fire or movement. Would this practice be a useful addition to CM?

[Mr. Hankey]

Only useful in telegraphing your position and subsequently having to deal with high flying, exploding lead raindrops without an umbie.

[rexford]

Recon by fire was used duirng WW II by offensive units to cause enemy to give away position by shooting or moving.

You place a Tiger II 1000m away from a woods or building and fire HE, which might blow away the camou leaves on the M10's.

[Mr. Hankey]

That won't work here... Can't see it being implemented either.

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

I have not seen units with actual "hide" orders break their "hide" and shoot back because of area fire. But certainly firing tends to show your location, and units without explicit hide orders will shoot back at things they can see that are in range and can be hurt.

So, e.g. if you put an HMG in s stone building with wide fields of fire, nobody may know it is there. Shoot up treelines and people will know it is there, see it, and in range fire back, like as not. One counts on the cover to protect the shooter.

It can also be a useful idea in blockbusting, or moving from building to building. A tank putting a few HE rounds into a building before your men rush it can make the entrance decidedly less risky.

MG fire might pin part of a treeline with area fire too, but generally isn't worth the ammo and jam chances - although one can use the coaxials on vehicles for that role, as their ammo is nearly unlimited. Artillery can be called down on suspected enemy positions before anyone is seen, but this can sometimes be wasteful since usually their available ammo is limited. If you know someone is there, obviously the arty idea is fine.

People in anything heavier than woods cover are quite unlikely to be hurt by small arms area fire, and in the open you can see them. So those are the obvious recon-by-fire possibilities - guns or tanks at buildings, MGs up high to draw fire, vehicle MGs to hose tree lines.

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rexford:

Recon by fire was used duirng WW II by offensive units to cause enemy to give away position by shooting or moving.

You place a Tiger II 1000m away from a woods or building and fire HE, which might blow away the camou leaves on the M10's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have used Recon by fire in CM

IT works and its modeled

you can shoot at suspect places and see if something moves, breaks, panics or returns fire.. (sometimes you can guess right, especially with regard to HE from tanks taking down tactically significant houses and big buildings from great distance, EASY to target and hit and after a few minutes you may have rubble with enemy infantry crawling out of it)

No problem

-tom w

[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 01-10-2001).]

[Mr. Hankey]

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I blow up buildings all the time, but I never thought to call it recon, lol. I called it "denying cover" and "taking out the trash".

[Guest Andrew Hedges]

I frequently fire at "sound contacts" with my units -- especially infantry units. Frequently this will cause the sound contact to resolve into whatever is really there. Typically this does not cause the unspotted units to fire back -- if they wanted to fire at me, I would think that they would already have done so.

I've never tried blind recon by fire, though.

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

I frequently fire at "sound contacts" with my units -- especially infantry units. Frequently this will cause the sound contact to resolve into whatever is really there. Typically this does not cause the unspotted units to fire back -- if they wanted to fire at me, I would think that they would already have done so.

I've never tried blind recon by fire, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should try it, you may (as part of your tactical plan) WANT to give away the location of some of your forces, and fire into places you suspect the enemy, if you have a tank with lots of HE then a few rounds here and there dedicated to recon by fire into a building or the near-by tree line may just flush out an unseen unit or two

-tom w

[Old Crow]

Recon by fire works great when you use mortars too. I usually use a few volleys to 'cause troops in a suspected position to scamper off into an awaiting field of fire.

[RobVarak]

It's modeled and effective. I actually asked a question about this way back in the pre-beta demo days. Do a search and it should turn up.

------------------

Rob Varak

Editor

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[Forever Babra]

I always use recon by fire. It absolutely works.

[citizen]

I've designed a scenario called "Recon By Fire." The Allies ammo is maxed out, but they have to fire 90% of it off before they can exit the map for points.

The tactic was used mainly when moving through suspected enemy positions, especially when either the Allies were on the move or the Axis had just (supposedly) pulled out of a position. I feel that an "exit the map" scenario is the right sort of place for the tactic. The troops don't have time to search every building or clump of trees, so shooting everything up saves time.

Email me at loyalcitizen@home.com if you'd like to test the scenario for me. It was designed specifically to be played against the AI.

Matt