Henri Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I am getting contradictory opinions about CM movies. On the CMHQ chat forum, some knowledgeable people said that if you replay a movie when playing against the AI, you can get different results, because the results are calculated on the fly during the movie.I was told that this is the reason that a single move in pbem games takes 4 mailings. But on the Usenet war-historical forum, some "experts" say that movies are only movies and that you always get the same result if you replay them. Who is right? Now if the first people are correct, what is to prevent a player who receives a movie from replaying the file until he gets a better result before sending it back?I understand how the 4-mailing thing prevents a player from changing his MOVES after watching the result, but it doesn't prevent the first player who gets the movie from reloading the file and replaying the movie. Clarifications? Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I know there was a problem with this but IIRC it was fixed in one of the patches. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra: I know there was a problem with this but IIRC it was fixed in one of the patches. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll fix your butt with this bat, if you don't get in the pool this instant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 It is not about replaying the movie It s about recalculating the turn, because some random element comes in play. Works like that: 1. You plot your moves (save them). Hit "GO". Outcome - x. 2. You take saved file, hit "GO". Outcome - y Hope i made it clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Olesen Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I'm quite sure that the movie does not change with a reload, at least for a pbem game. It would be a bug if it did. Btw, a pbem turn requires 3 mailings, not 4, except at startup. It goes like this: Player 1 gives orders (first turn), then sends Player 2 gives orders, then sends Player 1 watches, then sends Player 2 watches, then gives orders, then sends Player 1 gives orders, then sends. Player 2 watches, then sends Player 1 watches, then gives orders, then sends etc. And if you get a watch-only turn, then it is possible to just skip through, save it, send the file back and then reload and watch it later (quitting at the end instead of hitting "Done") if you want to speed the process a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 The movie is just a movie. The calculations are done before the movie and didn't change with the play. The bug about movies, which i saw in PBEM play, and not against the AI, was fixed. It was about changing the outcome of turn for skipping things that happens after the 60 seconds when you replay the movie (Arty shells and te like). Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 16, 2001 Author Share Posted January 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Olesen: . Btw, a pbem turn requires 3 mailings, not 4, except at startup. It goes like this: Player 1 gives orders (first turn), then sends Player 2 gives orders, then sends Player 1 watches, then sends Player 2 watches, then gives orders, then sends ...[snip] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok, just to make it clear, if Player 2 after this last step above reloads the received file and watches it again, he will see the exact same results every time? Otherwise he could watch the movie, give some orders, then reload the file and watch it again hoping to get better results... Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I'm certain that the actual turn math (including the random elements) is performed after the second player in a turn gives his orders and *before* he mails it off to his opponent. These calculations are indicated by the blue bar that runs from empty to full after the player gives his orders. This generates the movie, but of course this player doesn't get to see it until his opponent sees it and then sends it back. Am I mistaking the subject of the debate? Paul "Martyr" Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 This issue was cleared up by the latest patches IIRC. From the CMBO readme text file: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> * Fixed a bug that caused events happening past the normal 60 seconds of action sometimes to be "undone" by rewinding and fast-forwarding past them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There was another issue of people being able to continually reload a turn movie until they got the results they wanted, to the best of my knowledge this was cleared up. ------------------ "The world is wide, and I will not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henri: On the CMHQ chat forum, some knowledgeable people said that if you replay a movie when playing against the AI, you can get different results, because the results are calculated on the fly during the movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> HUH??? What were these people smokin'? The "movie" is calculated when the little blue bar goes across the screen at the bottom. It is *NOT* calculated on the fly. Let me know what these people were smokin' and get me some! The movie has *never* been calculated on the fly during playback. So in turn, you can watch a movie as many times as you like and you will see the same thing over and over again. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now if the first people are correct, what is to prevent a player who receives a movie from replaying the file until he gets a better result before sending it back?I understand how the 4-mailing thing prevents a player from changing his MOVES after watching the result, but it doesn't prevent the first player who gets the movie from reloading the file and replaying the movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There was an bug in PBEM game movies, I believe, that would ommit things that happened after the 60 seconds were over, such as artillery shells like 'argie' suggested when one would rewind the movie several times. However this has been fixed with the latest patch. It was actually fixed with the v1.1b23 patch previously. So now, no matter how many times you watch a movie of any type, the results will be the same. [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 01-16-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 16, 2001 Author Share Posted January 16, 2001 Thanks to all for clearing this up; the question tht had stimulated this on th eCMHQ Chat site was why it was apparently so difficult to stream all the movies together (someone said that it was because of this alleged "on the fly" calculation. In any case, why hasn't anyone ever recorded all the movies from a game on a video recorder using the video output of the video card? One could even record different viewpoints then, using a video editing program, add voiceover comments and even edit the whole tape to make a really nice movie. I would pay money for a CD with movies like that! Henri Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henri: In any case, why hasn't anyone ever recorded all the movies from a game on a video recorder using the video output of the video card? One could even record different viewpoints then, using a video editing program, add voiceover comments and even edit the whole tape to make a really nice movie. I would pay money for a CD with movies like that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have thought about trying this. Except I doubt that losing all my forces in just a few turns will look any better on TV. And about the money part... now that sounds like a profitable venture... ------------------ "The world is wide, and I will not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkmek Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 The VCR method would work, but it would be very tedious and you lose the best part about CM movies, freedom of movement. It would be like watching Saving Private Ryan or something. The only view you get is the directors'. I doubt we will ever see a CM entire game 'movie'. If War is Hell - CM is Heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Adams Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Is there a way in the game ( I currently only have the demo) to be able to play back all turns in a game? Not just the last one? If not then it would be a really nice feature to have. ------------------ Scott Adams Not Dilbert, Adventure! www.msadams.com msadams@msadams.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkmek Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Boy you asked an old question there. The "do a search" police may get you. It is not possible to watch an entire game as one continuous movie, but I have seen alot of discussion on that. I agree it would be cool, but I would not want to be locked into one view as I mentioned above. Just enjoy what we have at the moment, it is much better than any other alternative. So how long do you think you will demo til you get the whole game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Scott - Full-movie playback is probably the most-requested feature for future CMs (for obvious reasons ). Unfortunately BTS has stated that it's harder than it sounds to code. I believe they've said it's possible for CM2, but not to count on it. The best alternative at this point is to play PBEMs and to save the movie files. IIRC a few months ago someone designed a viewer which would allow these files to be viewed in sequence. Hope this helps. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts