Stixx Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Just a question, is it possible to knockout roadblocks with engineers? I thought this would be a pretty simple job for a Engineer platoon but in a recent scenario i had a crack platoon sitting next to a roadblock with no affect. I tried targetting the roadblock and all they did was fire small arms at it. Can these things be taken out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Nope. As far as I understand it, roadblocks are considered to be too substantial to remove in the context of a short battle such as those modelled by CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stixx: I thought this would be a pretty simple job for a Engineer platoon ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure is, give them a couple of hours to work undisturbed and they'll remove it. Unfortunately these conditions will never apply within a CM battle... It would be nice to have it removable between battles in an operation though. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 Ah ok then. I thought a few demo charges out hits from a Priest or somekink would eventually clear it. I quess not. Road blocks stay!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 It was standard practice for german recon units to use pumas and other PSW's to pull roadblocks out of the way. That is my understanding of the subject, and as far as using demo's to destroy a roadblock it would only take as long as the timer on the charges was set for. I think this is a case of (we can't do this because of this reason, but we are doing that because we can "mine clearing VS. roadblocks"). The time limit is bogus, would you as a engineer be more likely to clear a road block in 5 minutes or a fair sized mine field in 1 min? Jake "Hold still you sod, these bullets cost money!"red devil-Arnhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted May 30, 2001 Author Share Posted May 30, 2001 Yeah that's what i think. Even if they are given a very high strength rating they should be able to be destroyed. Hopefully this will change in CM2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Gentlemen, The Roadblock represents (either by accident or intent) a myriad of "point obstacles" which are otherwise missing from the game. Abatis, vertical steel I-Beams, Dragons teeth, crater groups and improvised (ie booby-trapped tractor loaded up with jerry cans). All of these targets represent and engineer operation outside the scope of a CM game. The only exception may be a really long game (say 90 turns) where a 30 min engineer operation could be executed or as has been stated an operation. 30 min might get you thru dragons teeth and I-beams but you will need heavy equipment for craters and abatis. So my guess is that the boys said "Screw it" and made them all impassable. As to HE solving all of our wordly woes, whether delivered by hand or SP Arty, the reality is that complex and well made point obstacles are pretty nasty and take a lot of explosives to take out (ie you would be shootin all day). Sometimes you need a dozer/excavator. So there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Then why I ask you does CMBO not cover fortified buildings? If the combat engineers had such a long time to build this great roadblock then why can't they put sandbags around my HMG42 position in that building over there? I'm not familiar with the type and size of the explosive used in the demolition charges, but I would assume based on their name that they can be used to demolish obstacles. Another example of this is the lack of including the Brummbar in CMBO and including the Hummel. The Brummbar would have been far more likely to appear on the battlefields we play on than that poor 2inch mortar magnet. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Well I'd have to check but I do believe HMGs get a defence bonus while in building if for exposure alone. Fortification should be included. As to demolition charges, well much like Hollywood grenades they are far over-estimated. 6-12 bloocks of HE do pack a pretty good punch but not on a 100m of big freakin trees with their bases still attached to the stump and mixed in with barbwire and mined for good measure. You could blast at that all day and still have work left for tomorrow. Not even considering you have to try and keep the guys placing the charges alive long enough to finish the job. That is of course after you go back to Troop HQ for enough explosives to be brought up to try the job in the first place. As to the Brumbar(sp?) well they did include the AVRE so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAK: Then why I ask you does CMBO not cover fortified buildings? If the combat engineers had such a long time to build this great roadblock then why can't they put sandbags around my HMG42 position in that building over there? I'm not familiar with the type and size of the explosive used in the demolition charges, but I would assume based on their name that they can be used to demolish obstacles. Another example of this is the lack of including the Brummbar in CMBO and including the Hummel. The Brummbar would have been far more likely to appear on the battlefields we play on than that poor 2inch mortar magnet. Jake <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It depends on the obstacle. HE might just make an even bigger mess of an abatis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Wouldn't CM's combat engineers have training to do just that? If you dug under a road block about enough to fit 2 democharges, that thing would go sky high. What happens if they had the same requirements as minefields to destroy, and BTS could mix in a success rate that is dependent on troop quality and C&C? Most quick roadblocks would consist of trees and the like (dutch citizens made roadblocks out of dead bodies in Arnhem). :confused: Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Jak, Please read my first post on this thread it might answer your last question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAK: Wouldn't CM's combat engineers have training to do just that? If you dug under a road block about enough to fit 2 democharges, that thing would go sky high. What happens if they had the same requirements as minefields to destroy, and BTS could mix in a success rate that is dependent on troop quality and C&C? Most quick roadblocks would consist of trees and the like (dutch citizens made roadblocks out of dead bodies in Arnhem). :confused: Jake<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> An abatis can be "quick" to set up, and a bear to take down. Picture trying to blow up several interlocking trees. Having been a combat engineer (in addition to my stint as a 19K), I spent some time blowing up beaver dams on our property (with the aid of a licensed demolition expert, I should point out to our law enforcement agents out there!). It's not as easy as you think, as the explosion can often just rearrange the logs! Edit: I'm a non-typing fool. :cool: [ 05-30-2001: Message edited by: Mannheim Tanker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 I read you first post Capt. Thanx, for the hands on info Mannhiem. I still believe that our engineers are being slighted and if those guys can build a pontoon bridge under heavy artillery fire and Mg's raking the area then they can sure destroy a roadblock as well as barbedwire and mines (not that the HMG's in CM are that much of a threat). Oh, that brings up that problem of barbedwire, it is really unsettling that barbedwire clearing capablity isn't given to engineers. Maybe a patch is needed after CMBB is out. Just some of my observations. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Now on that one Jak, you would be absolutly correct. It's called Bangalor and makes very short work of barbwire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 You hit it right on the money Capt. Wire, even booby trapped with handgrenades and mines should be easier to clear than a carefully placed mine field. Why doesn't BTS simulate wirecutters or a similar tool that is avalible only to engineers(although I believe that regular infantry should be able to clear wire as well, that might be asking too much Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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