Rarity Factors

[Chief]

My last post on rarity and point values -- I swear it!

I got a sense from reading previous posts that the OPTIONAL rarity factor system discussed for CM2 might have the effect of simply adjusting the point values of the units to reflect their relative scarcity or abundance. I fear that this would simply result in players never picking rare units and always picking common units if they wanted to maximize their force effectiveness.

But there are other ways. For example, BTS could rig the system so that units (or numbers of units) are available based on their rarity. Thus, a German player would get a shot at purchasing no, or very few KTs, based on the scenario date, force type and total points value.

Or a system equivalent to ASL's rarity system could be used. There, the players each rolled dice to determine how high they could go up the rarity ladder in buying units.

Maybe something like this is the intention and I missed it, but I succumbed to the compulsion to put my oar in the water.

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[:USERNAME:]

Has there been any discussion on having ramped up costs on units depending on rarity? Example: First puma costs 100 points, second one costs 200 points. Another example: First hetzer costs 68 points second costs 115 points, etc. The point is that you can still buy these oddities but that equiping your german kampfgruppe with pumas, king tigers and lynx's gets expensive and you are out numbered 20 to 1!

[Guest MantaRay]

Lewis, this is the second thing that I agree with you on. Good idea. Not sure how BTS will do it.

Ray

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[:USERNAME:]

You have alot of nerve agreeing with me..

Thats the way I am going to do it in my game. Along with a cap too. So you buy one platoon of Tiger Is and it costs not so much, the second and third hurt your pocket book (but I throw in a 2 tank HQ unit cause Im nice) and then a fourth platoon caps you out (and costs alot because of fuel/ammo overhead) because of the size of the scenario (maybe modeling a SS panzer Division with an integral Tiger Company).

[Guest AbnAirCav]

Originally posted by Chief:

I got a sense from reading previous posts that the OPTIONAL rarity factor system discussed for CM2 might have the effect of simply adjusting the point values of the units to reflect their relative scarcity or abundance. I fear that this would simply result in players never picking rare units and always picking common units if they wanted to maximize their force effectiveness.

The good news is that I got an entirely different sense from the optional system Steve postulated in this excellent thread over here that does incorporate a "roll" to vary the relative scarcity point costs and does sound like a good system, IMHO. If implemented the way described, it will almost ensure that rare vehicles do get chosen in some battles.

FWIW, my preference would be to have more than one option. There have been several good ideas put forth, perhaps more than one can make the final cut for inclusion as optional, rarity/"historical" alternatives? But, if we can only have one then I would prefer Steve's to others that I have seen proposed.

[This message has been edited by AbnAirCav (edited 01-27-2001).]

[Mr. Clark]

Speaking of Rarity...

How Rare would the "plus" models of Tanks be in the game??? Anyone know?

Thanks.

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[:USERNAME:]

I also like the idea of buying from a platoon type:

1. Pick platoon type

2. Costs are dependant on that type

3. limits depend on that type

Example:

Pick US TD platoon type

purchase M10s, M8 and jeeps only

Normal limit is 4 M10s (maybe limited to 3 in depleted situations), 2 M8s and 2 jeeps. Jeep morale is based on this type. Since his function is really light scout. Jeeps here are cheap and they have low morale. Remember, not filling out the platoon will effect the morale. So buying just 1 M10, 1 M8 and two jeeps means very timid troops. Also, not buying at least one jeep means longer command delays.

Another example:

US armored Cav platoon

purchase M8s, M5, Halftrack,jeeps, etc

Jeeps here are higher cost and higher morale. They are meant for agressive recon. Likewise the M8s are crewed by looters and drinkers that like to be the first in a town. maybe a rapist. who knows?

another:

Transport platoon

trucks, trucks, trucks, 3/4 trucks and cheap jeeps (maybe a weasel). These jeepsters will abandon at site of volksgrenadiers.

Also, the VictoryPoints you get will depend on the cost you paid. So running some pissy pants from the redball express with a truck full of frozen chicken parts onto the VP location in the last 15 seconds dont get you nothing.

When your point total is less than 10 percent of your start total, then you must pick from the HQ grab bag. This fictional allotment is generated by the game. Alot of losers hang around HQ so make your 90 percent effective. This might actually kick in at a variable point, lets say, 15 percent if you have too many half manned platoons.

Also whats left depends on what you picked. Dont expect too many King Tigers from the HQ roundup if you have spent large on heavy tanks already. Maybe one of those french tanks with a russian ATG bolted on top. I dunno.

Lewis

[Juardis]

Well, I started a similar thread on c.s.i.p.g.war-historical. I think BTS should incorporate unit experience in the rarity equation. That is to say, an elite Volksturm is very rare, but perhaps an elite SS platoon not so rare. So the cost of infantry type, as well as vehicles, should be based on rarity (rifle 41s more common than Pioneers). Furthermore, you're more likely to see a crack SS troop so the cost in going from vet to crack within the SS infantry type should not be as great in going from vet to crack in a rifle 41 platoon say. Yet, since the SS was more rare, a crack SS platoon will still cost more than a rifle 41 platoon.

All this for when you BYO troops. Computer purchased troops would probably work better with the probability that someone posted on c.s.i.p.g.w-h (and I think alluded to above).

All IMHO of course.

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Jeff Abbott

[Guest Michael emrys]

Originally posted by Chief:

I got a sense from reading previous posts that the OPTIONAL rarity factor system discussed for CM2 might have the effect of simply adjusting the point values of the units to reflect their relative scarcity or abundance. I fear that this would simply result in players never picking rare units and always picking common units if they wanted to maximize their force effectiveness.

That presupposes that players only play to beat each other. While not exactly uncommon , it isn't the whole story. Some players view a scenario as a kind of experiment: What will happen if we send this force structure into this particular kind of battle?

Michael