Unit Abbreviation Usage (Bias?)

[Dr. Brian]

I've noticed that in CM:BO, German units use German abbreviations (e.g., Unt) for rank, which is obviously a German abbreviation.

However, I noticed that there is in oversight when the allies are used. For example, Polish and French units use the English translation as opposed to their native languages, like the Germans.

I assume there is no way to change this, so I'm stuck with the German abbreviations instead of English. I've never cared for the German usage, and prefer the translation, as it is less confusing for non-German linguists.

However, if this same format is used in CM:BB, will the Red Army be in English too, while the German Army is still using German abbreviations?

Perhaps BTS can be consistent in national portrayal. Although I would not expect Cyrillic letters to represent a Red Army Sergeant, I'd expect that some translation could be done.

Thinking about it, Cyrillic letters would be cool.

[Wolfe]

Hey! Good idea. The most recent screenshots show the CM2 interface with 'Sgt' listed for both units:

http://www.combatmission.com/CM2/pics/CGM_Infantry.jpg

http://www.combatmission.com/CM2/pics/CGM_T-34.jpg

- Chris

[Dr. Brian]

I think it would give the game an "international" flavor if they did. Maybe it's just tough to get a decent translation for the Red Army stuff.

Thanks for the screen shot links!

[M Hofbauer]

It should be noted that the "german abreviations" used in CMBO are not authentic, but were done by BTS within their artistic license.

So it would be best to refer to them as pseudo-german abbreviations.

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

It should be noted that the "german abreviations" used in CMBO are not authentic, but were done by BTS within their artistic license.

So it would be best to refer to them as pseudo-german abbreviations.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what would the correct ones be? I am trying to compile a list for my Soldbuch pages on one of my websites. From what I can gather, Army ranks would be;

Gren

Gefr

OGefr

Uffz

No idea what Unterfeldwebel would be

Feld

Oberfeldwebel - ?

Stabsfeldwebel - ?

Lt

Oblt

Haupt or Hpt

Maj

Obstlt

For all their love of horribly long compound words like Panzergrenadierlehrregiment, it doesn't appear to this native English speaker that the Germans had very short abbreviations for rank - and so BTS was forced to use three letter designations simply to fit them into the interface.

The SS ones seem even more "butchered", but what else could have been done!

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian:

.

However, I noticed that there is in oversight when the allies are used. For example, Polish and French units use the English translation as opposed to their native languages, like the Germans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The French and Polish troops were outfitted and organized by the British - but rewatching The Eagle Has Landed reminds me that they did keep their own insignia and rank titles. You may have a point - but rank insignia icons (ala Close Combat) may have been even more confusing.

I prefer the native language ones too; using "sergeant" to describe a German NCO is very pointless since there were five grades of what one could call a "sergeant".

Incidentally, as M. points out, "Unt" is BTS' abbreviation - the examples I've seen use Uffz. to refer to Unteroffizier.

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[M Hofbauer]

lessee if the search function works again...yup...

quote from a post made 10-19-1999:

(me):"there are mistakes in the abbreviation for german ranks: (...) Obergefreiter should be abbreviated "OGefr" not "Obg"(...) the abbreviation for Unteroffizier is "Uffz" not "Unt"."

(BTS):"Yes, we are inventing our own shortenings of ranks. We wanted to keep them all to 3 letters for spacial reasons. Therefore we have created ones that are most easy to recognize. (i.e. Unt = Unteroffizier)."

Michael,

I'm shooting from the hip here but if memory serves me right Feldwebel would be abbreviated Fw., therefore an Oberfeldwebel would be OFw. et cetera, e.g. StFw ...

[Dr. Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

The French and Polish troops were outfitted and organized by the British - but rewatching The Eagle Has Landed reminds me that they did keep their own insignia and rank titles. You may have a point - but rank insignia icons (ala Close Combat) may have been even more confusing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would not mind the native language, especially the Polish, French, and soon Red Army. I just think that they should do it for all, not just the Germans. Kind of slanted.

[Terence]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian:

I would not mind the native language, especially the Polish, French, and soon Red Army. I just think that they should do it for all, not just the Germans. Kind of slanted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're not advocating equal treatment for different languages are you?????

Good god man, keep it quiet if you are.

The anti-political correctness platoon -- even worse that the pro-political correctness platoon in my book -- will be on you like flies on sh@# if you're not careful.

[M Hofbauer]

Mike,

in a listing of crews and rosters etc. I found the following abbreviations re. your question. Although they are from Luftwaffe records, I think it is pretty safe to assume that the Heer used the same method.

Feldwebel is abbreviated Fw. Oberfeldwebel is abbreviated Ofw. etc.

Note that in this listing the first letter of the second noun in the composita is not enlarged in the abbreviation, for example they would also write Ogefr instead of OGefr.

That does however not mean that your way of enlarging them is wrong. In fact, today it is much more common to abbreviate that way than the other way, especially in the armed forces, too.

It is the same thing as whether you write PzKpfWg or Pzkpfwg

[M Hofbauer]

oh and one more thing... the abbreviation "Feld" might be a colloquial abbreviation used not in written context but when talking. Very similar to the american Sergeant being abbreviated as "Sarge". The Oberfeldwebel could be referred to as "Oberfeld", like in "Where did the Oberfeld go?"