Crank_GS Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Now what skills or added benefit does "Elite" status really confer upon those who have it? Better spotting ability? Faster targeting ability? More stealthy movement? Or do they just get cooler uniforms... Obviously, quicker reaction times to orders - that I can see. But, after playing the Villers Bocage scenario over and over again, I am convinced that the orders reaction time is the only benefit. Am I trying to recreate exactly what Michael Wittmann did that day, and disappointed because I cannot? Of course not - I know that was an incredible blend of guts, timing and luck. I know that the scenario is winnable only a small percentage of the time. However, why are GREEN tank crews consistently - over many many replays - able to spot, target and hit a tank crewed by an ELITE crew - before the "Elite" crew even see them?!? I am not talking about a "Why didn't my Wittmann Tiger kill those 3 Cromwells and 2 Fireflies he just ran into?" kind of thing. I am not that dumb. I am dumb enough, though, to not know why a Green crew can drive OVER an ambush marker, stop, rotate, fire upon and kill an Elite Tiger?!? Who never enen saw the $%@#&*s!! That's not to mention the already written about habit of driving forward with the turret fully reversed to engage the remaining 2 men of a platoon HQ unit... By the way, I am not one of those "Why don't my German Ubermensch win every battle like they are supposed to?" types. Actually, I play as US forces 95% of the time. Villers is just a good shoot-em-up scenario. End of rant. ------------------ Capt. Byron Crank, US Army [This message has been edited by Crank_GS (edited 01-30-2001).] [This message has been edited by Crank_GS (edited 01-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Tanks with elite status have a higher % chance to hit as well as that lower reaction time. Just because they're elite doesn't mean that they can't be killed though. IIRC elite status does virtually nothing for the survivability of a tank once it is hit. The same round that will take out a green tiger will take out an elite tiger. Given the advantages confered on the elite tiger by it's elite status, however, it is easier for you as the player to keep that tank from getting hit and thus keep it alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 No, Elite status certainly would not affect a tank after it has been hit - that would be a "hardware" question, not a crew quality one. My question steers more toward why a Green crew can spot, target and fire more quickly than an Elite crew - even though the Green crew is moving and the Elite crew is stationary - and targeting an Ambush marker that the green crew just drove right over!! This is not just once or twice - or even ten or fifteen times, but consistently over thirty five to fifty times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Crank best is not to play that scenario if it only gets you frustrated. It got me too. I was doing fine and then allways dieing in most idiotic circumstances...like Elite tiger charging against fireflys with its turret pointing rearwards. Or elite tiger swinging its turret back and forth for 3minutes not getting 1 shot fired and then getting knocked out.(i would guess RL elite crew could concentrate on 1 target..kill it then go for other one) Btw i had same problem in ambush with elite Tiger. I was positioned behind building using hide+ambush commands. Green stuart popped in front of me (24m) ,saw Tiger, Stopped, turned its turret and fired weak point penetration on my Tiger. Tiger had just started adjusting its aim. (i thought i would be ready to fire with little or no delay to direction of ambush marker) I would think in RL Tiger would have been ready to fire in second than Stuart was in its sights. Now it was like. "Hans wake up! whatta hell? Is that Stuart 12o'clock?" "Should I load the gun now, Günther?" "No let him shoot first!" "Why Günther?" "Because we are not ladies!" "...but, Günther" "Clank!" "Oh **** he knocked us out!" [This message has been edited by illo (edited 01-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Since there are 12 faces in CM, I suspect the better looking ones go to 'elite' units, and gradually they become scruffier until you get to 'green'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 IMHO, high experience in CMBO really show diffferences in foot soliders rather than on AFV crews. It is most noticable when your grounts get into close combats and their resistance moral breakdowns. Personally, I would never go into a QB without at least "veteran" troops, but I have reservations on choosing veteran AFV crews. From what I have read from this thread, appearently, I repeat appearently, it is not the elite status affecting the outcome , more importantly, the slow turret rate of Tiger tanks and the TacAI target priorty and well to some extent, bad luck are at work here. In CMBO, in contrast to [i}Legendary Officers in "Starfleet Battles" universe, elite crews cannot make their tanks go faster, move the turret faster, or make the tank work better than the spec, they just make almost the most out of their weapons. And, they may know better when to get out of trouble. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 You may be right about the effect on Infantry being more pronounced than the effect on Armor. However, read what I wrote: it has nothing to do with slow turret traverse. This is a case of an elite crew not even seeing a green crew that has driven right over an ambush marker that is targeted by an unbuttoned, elite crew. Range was minimal: 75-200 yards, sometimes smoke was around in varying quantities, sometimes not. But smoke will affect each unit the same, based on reciprocal lines of sight. If the green crews are that good - and elite ones that not-good - then I will certainly be buying green crews in my QBs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tero Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Faster reaction time does not undo the TacAI deficiencies. No matter what the German platform the Allies are invariably in an advantage because the Allies have stabilizers (in most cases) and fast turrets. Furthermore the cross section targeting algorithm gives them INHERENT advantage in targeting and first shot hit propability, especially if the silhouettes are grossly mismatched. I consider these features to be challenges to be beaten eventhough at times they make your life really hard. [This message has been edited by tero (edited 01-31-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 An interesting thread. I think we need to go back to basics here. What *exactly* does GREEN - ELITE actually mean in CM terms, and does it differ between infantry and armour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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