Desperate Measures

[Thin Red Line]

I'm currently playing it in PBEM as the Germans.

I'm quite impressed by the excellent performance of my force and i wonder what you think about this scenario.

Did you play it against human ? What was the outcome ? What are your impressions ?

To make it clear i really enjoyed this scenario, but i would like to have more opinions.

Regards

[Thin Red Line]

I don't understand there is only one review on the Scenario Depot and nobody seems eager to comment on this one... It is a cd scenario. I must be missing something. According to me it is very interesting late-war scenario and the action is taking place at night. So it offers a great challenge for both sides.

I still don't know if it was originally intended to be played vs human of vs AI.

[rune]

It made for two player, or play Russian against the AI. Some feedback I got in email said people enjoyed playing it as Germans.

I don't worry about the scores on the scenarios. For example, A Battle of Minors, I got feedback saying it wasn't his idea of a mountain pass, and it looked like a Computer generated map. The map is based on a map I had gotten sent to me. The reviewer is WAY off the mark. The map is only 640 meters wide...maybe the pass is wider then 640 meters? Oh yeah, that is the terrain for the battle, so complain to mother nature for the terrain. It is a true reflection.

Got another review below that of other reviewers. Only comment was "Good Battle". Then why was it rated so much lower?

Tutorial scenarios are marked down for briefing, or for replayability. Ummm...they are tutorials. If you don't like the tutorial, it had NOTHING to do with the scenario. However, with one minor mistake, I think the guys did a great job on the tutorials.

However, I do apprecaite feedback when specifics are given. However, do NOT assume something, my email is listed here, ask. Admiral Keth and Big Dog do a great job on the site, I just wish the people would send good feedback.

Rune

[Thin Red Line]

Rune,

Thank for your reply.

Until now, in cmbb like in cmbo, i've reviewed every scenario i've played. Sometimes i've given feedback directly to the author, commenting of sending a remarkable turn. I think when an author spends several hours on his free time to work on scenarios, the least you can do is to take a few minutes to review it.

The problem maybe the notation system on the Depot, some criterias like replayabilty or balance are not easily understood or necessary. I'd prefer just to put a single mark over 5 (like the Woofs of Big Dog) + a comment.

I always play the scenarios in PBEM.

SPOILERS ALERT ! ( Desperate Measures and Danube Blues )

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

As i said, i really enjoyed playing Desperates Measures as the germans in PBEM. We must be at turn 27 or something, and my Panzers seem to have crushed every remaining opposition near the fords.

I've be astonished by the performance of the Panthers, they killed 7 russian tanks with 1 loss only (the one manned by a green crew). 100mm and 85mm shells have bounced on them like ping-pong balls. One last T34 was killed by shrecks. I was wondering what was the experience of other players in that scenario regarding armor, and if the superiority of the Mark V in my game was just due to luck.

And i rememeber was amazed by the quality of the T34/85 in Danube Blues (vs Tigers and AGs), but then the terrain was different.

After that I've advanced my tanks toward the banks together with my infantry, exactly on the same line, instead of keeping them back, the combined arm effect was devastating on the entrenched banks defenders. The Panthers were popping HE grenades (N...waffe i can't remember the name) at an incredible pace, i've never witnessed the use of this weapon in an offensive role like that before.

My honorable opponent, a good player, recognized he couldn't remember having been spanked like that in cm before. We haven't discussed the balance yet because the game isn't completely finished, but if other feedbacks you have received are on the same trend, i think this scenario could be slightly easier for the jerries.

Understand me, there is nothing wrong with it, it is just a remark.

Well, Rune, thanks you for this very pleasant scenario and the great time we had playing it!

Regards

Nicolas

[jwxspoon]

Personally I appreciate all the feedback I can get, and consider all suggestions. I think the Scenario Depot is a fantastic resource, but there is a lack of consistency among the reviewers, and I can fully empathize with Rune and Andreas' frustration. That being said, I watch for several of the same types of complaints. Based on an email I received this week I am making a couple of flag changes is one of my scenarios; had the player not made his case to me about the change I might not have considered it.

Good for you, TRL, for giving feedback on all scenarios! When the players stay in active contact with the designers, only good things can come of it.

jw

[rune]

Thank you for reviewing scenarios.

I agree with Jeff [as much as it pains me to admit that ] I appreciate any feedback that offers suggestions, etc. It is the ones that give you nothing back, or assuming things that I find a pain. Jaegermeister is a good example. The briefing rating goes from 4 to 8. OK, either it garbage or it is good. Rate the scenario NOT the manual. Same format as the rest of the scenarios on the CD, so they all were bad?

Anyway, once the patch is out, look forward to three massive scenarios. A "Rune Massive" pak as it were. My thanks to all that tested them, Jeff, Harv, Lindan, Warpy, Mak, WWB, and any others I missed. I think you are going to enjoy them. One is especially made for 2 player action, featuring a real battle involving hills, bridges, Romanians, more hills, etc.

Rune

[Thin Red Line]

Great, i like massive scenarios. My best experience of CMBO was the huge battles like Crown of Thorns or On The Job Training.

I'm looking forward to play big ones in CMBB.

[jwxspoon]

I will be in therapy when I finish testing Rune's latest monstrosity, involving Italian Alpini.

jw

[ November 21, 2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

[NewSocialistMan]

Have played and enjoyed both. Found them to be very statisfying as the Russian player to see Panthers and Tigers (and other fascist vehicles) destroyed.

In Desperate Measures, the sound of a 45mm AT opening up a Panther's sidearmor is just simply glorious. I want a wav file of that sound effect to replace the "click" sound of my mouse.

[John O'Reilly]

TRL,

I have played Desperate Measures as the Germans and had a similar experience to yourself. I am waiting to try it vs the AI as the Russians before reviewing it since I too was amazed by my Panthers power. It came out as total victory for the Germans. Since I know how dangerous those Panthers are I have several ideas as the Russians as to how to deal with them.

I appreviate Rune's frustration at the reviews in the Depot. A scenario may list "best played as attacker vs AI" and "play second as attacker vs AI" and you will still find, I'm sorry to call them this, but knuckle dragging morons who will play as the defender and then whine when the AI cannot put up a fight! Fine, it is possible to make a mistake (although if playing against the AI 99% of the time it should be as attacker) and play the wrong side, especially if the designer does not list which side is best played in the briefing . Having done that it is best NOT to review the scenario at all or switch sides and try it as it was intended,

John

[Thin Red Line]

I've the result, because the turn after i posted the above comments the ennemy 'auto surrendered' because of low morale (turn 28).

So it is a total victory for the Germans.

Champagne !

[John O'Reilly]

Ok, just finished this as the Russians vs the AI to test the effectiveness of the Russian armour in ambush. I got a major victory without trying too hard. AI did a credible job in the attack, hitting me on both flanks and the center!

I lost 3 T34s in all and accounted for 4 Panthers.

The SU100s are bad news for the big cats and can kill from the front IF they hit. I found hitting to be a problem. One T34 actually took out a Panther at 150m with two frontal turret hits! This was with regular AP! Obvioulsy the "curved" effect coming into play.

The only disadvantage of the SU100 is it's slow reload time. Shoot and scoot suggests itself. In fact I had a bit of a mishap when first using this with them. A Panther was presenting a flank shot while my TDs were crossing the ford. I ordered S&S forgetting that the first part of that order is a fast move and the two Green TDs promptly bogged and immobilised themselves!

I think this is a finely balanced scenario. The Russian has armour that can hurt the big cats frontally, he just has to use it carefully. Night and the reverse slope defense provide opportunity. The one thing that bothered me was the reluctance of the T34s to use tungsten ammo. Not once did I see it. Now I can accept that they will range with AP but once they start hitting surely switching to "T" would be best? I know TRL has seen this in another sceanrio too, is this worthy of bringing to the attention of BFC?

By the by, anyone who thinks infantry is brittle obviously wasn't watching the Germans in my game dash across the snow under fire to kick my squads out of their nice cosy buildings! Perhaps I am just unlucky?

John

[j0ker]

Just completed this scenario as the Germans vs. AI (Russians), my very first win after about a month of trying to beat the verdammt AI...

I'm not sure the play was as balanced as others contend (Total victory being achieved) but i'd have to play as the Russians before making a final ruling, i guess.

Won the battle by pushing most of the force to the right, as there's a natural screen formed by the slopes towards the village. I was able to easily take out the tanks with a hull-down approach, swinging the armor to the left while my troops attained the right-hand flag and worked their way to the left towards town. Had my aty/few HMGs right on the forest edge to work on long-range targets and the rest was pretty much a done deal. I did bog one tank in the woods and lost the green-commanded tank in town but those were the only significant losses.

Overall a satisfying win, if only to prove to myself that my application of tactics learned in CMBO is viable in CMBB... also makes me want to keep playing, which is a worthwhile result.

[Thomm]

Total Victory as Germans, no problem, but here it comes: only SIX German casualties!!!! That must be a personal best!

There was also a noteworth scene in the finishing stage: I was able to move a flamethrower team inside the house close to the church! The church was already area fired on by two Panthers! Then the FT opened up and kept firing until they ran out of ammo. The church started burning and no less than FOUR enemy teams ran out in the open and towards the river, meeting heavy fire from all directions. That must have been my most successful FT assault ever. The enemy seemed to have been suppressed to a degree where not a single shot was fired at the FT!

Regards,

Thomm