Cooper Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 While I am highly impressed by the realism in CMBO I think it lacks a aiming command. How many times have you set up an ambush for an AFV and your panzerschreck(bazooka,piat) has missed the AFV. I am not talking about charging into a firefight with your bazooka in hand to take out a AFV. I'm talking about a well hidden anti-tank team that reveals it self with it's first shot. ex. (In a recent tcp my sherman was engaged with a stug III. my enemy had a hidden panzerschreck in some woods to the sherman's flank. that panzershreck missed 4 side shot at a range of 60-70m) Even a medium ranges they seem to missed alot and then become the focus of attenion for the AFV and any infantry support. They usually are eliminated or pinned before they get off their third shot (which how many shots it seems take for them to find the range). Something I would like would be an aiming command. This command would allow your unit to raise its hit % while it stay hidden. So when you did pop your ambush it would make it count. Units in war aim if they have the time and are not under fire so why can't we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Even if you aim them, these weapons are far from precision guided munitions. Expect them to miss a lot, it happened IRL, and it happens in CM, there are a lot of factors that go into this... wind, nervousness (staring down a 20-30 ton tank isn't work for the weak hearted), moving vehicles, smoke/haze, etc. Make up for it by having multiple Bazooka/Shreck teams in the ambush.. it will up your chance to hit. Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Cooper, It is pretty safe to assume that your team has already done all the sighting they can before firing the first round. The % hit chance you get from your first shot includes aim to the best of the gunners ability. Anything more than the current modelling would be beyond what could be expected in normal combat conditions. A possible exception could be a bonus for the defender when firing from it’s original position, representing previous ranging of his field of fire. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper Posted June 18, 2001 Author Share Posted June 18, 2001 When the enemy doesn't know you are there there isn't the pressure of oncoming fire to throw of your units aim/ability to see. There were germany anti tank company equip with just panzerfausts and screcks that scored more than 100 kills. The only way i can see doing this is making your first shot or two count. Because once you open fire you are going to have that units attention. If the Afv is disabled you probably wiil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arith Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 ok, well i just ordered this game a few days ago so i havent gotten the chance to play it yet, but it seems to me that there should be some kind of accuracy bonus if a unit fires from concealment. The enemy unit doesnt have the opportunity to react and the ambushing unit can pick its shot. I understand that the weapons were not super accurate but in my opinion, the chance for a hit should increase if the unit takes a shot from concealment. Like i said earlier, i havent been able to play yet so i dont know how well this works in game but i just wanted to share my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cooper: When the enemy doesn't know you are there there isn't the pressure of oncoming fire to throw of your units aim/ability to see. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've been saving this for just such an emergency - Testimony of Lt. Will Rogers (Junior!) -- The mission given Rogers included reconnoitering Poteau, a village between Vielsalm and St. Vith. An early morning incident at Poteau was described years later by Rogers during the filming of the military documentary The Battle at St. Vith. Rogers' platoon had stayed overnight in Poteau, and early the next morning the men discovered a German tank parked nearby. Rogers and one of his men went to their jeep and, after some effort, disentangled the rocket launcher from the camouflage net. Trying to pull the frozen rockets off the jeep, they chipped the ice away, pulled off the bag and the rockets fell into the mud. They managed to load the rocket launcher, but their first attempt to fire failed. They had forgotten to attach the wires. After connecting the wires, Rogers aimed, fired and his rocket hit the tank. When the smoke began to clear, Rogers saw the tank commander open the hatch and look around as the tank backed away...undamaged. ---- I know, I know - not quite apropos (Oops!! Sorry - "appropriate") but I think it makes the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I think some people forget just how crude and simple these hand heald AT weapons were. We aren't talking about something modern, which is lazer sighted, has a guided missile, and a very good lenses and aiming recticle to boot. This was basically a tube with maybe a crosshair welded on, if that. Then you have to fire at the tank. Now, in CM, we know if our guys spot the AT team or not. In real life, when youre an AT team, you have NO IDEA if the tank has spotted you, until the turret or MG turns your way and starts blasting you to pieces. So the nervousness is always there. You never know if that first shot will be your last one, ever. I think the current odds are reasonable, if albeit often times annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I might add that I have found that Piats are ALOT less likely to be spotted because there is no tell tale rocket blast out the back. I think the the fluke like nature of getting a hit is modeled very well in CM when it comes to the accuracy of these weapons. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: I think the the fluke like nature of getting a hit is modeled very well in CM when it comes to the accuracy of these weapons. -tom w[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> it wasn't a fluke of nature for panzershreck,zooka,or piat to hit at ranges of 80m or less. thats why tanks were suicidal to proceed with out infantry support. Ask Grabner who was the ill fated ss officer that led the charge across the arnhem brige lossing 12 vehicles to piats. Oh yea you can't because he got zapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 It might be a coincidence, but I have noticed a slightly higher success rate firing from ambush with AT weapons, or at least being able to get that all important second shot off if I miss. Don't forget that crew quality has a big impact on accuracy. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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