Hiding HQs

[Nabla]

I have a question about the hiding behaviour

of headquarters. I tried to arrange an ambush

by telling my men to hide on the bank of

a river. I had not set an ambush marker,

since I did not know where I was going to

hit them, but the rifle squads were behaving

quite nicely, waiting in the bushes for the

Germans to make a lethal mistake...

However, the headquarters were much more

problematic. They could not keep their heads

down, but opened fire on enemy units even

though they were further from enemy and

had better cover than rifle squads.

So my question is: do HQs act differently

when they have been ordered to hide?

BTW, I just joined the forum and this is

my first message, so hello to everyone and

thanks for BTS for developing this great

piece of software.

[Tiger]

Seems like HQs are always looking for trouble. Use the ambush marker so he won't target other stuff, but remember to keep checking the units in ambush each turn. Sometimes they will not disengage the ambush if something comes up that doesn't hit the ambush marker.

While on the subject, there should be another ambush marker added: "delayed ambush marker", where the units targeted on it will pause 15-30 seconds before springing the ambush. For those times when you want to ambush the middle or end of a column of troops/vehicles instead of the lead units.

-john

[jKMkIII]

And I also would like to be able to tell my squads to ambush on couple places. It is not so nice to watch movie when you have placed ambush with your troops for example in city crossing where enemy tanks have two roads they can take. Both pretty close to another (so no need to watch 90 degrees to different directions or anything), but far enough one ambush marker doesn't do the trick. Perhaps could expand main ambush marker with smaller priority ones (keep eye on main one, but don't let enemy walk on you from that direction either..)

Perhaps better than ambush marker would be to have ambush area..

And if possible wouldn't mind being able to tell my PIATs not to stop ambushing (and hiding) when enemy infantry walks over ambush position.. would rather want them hiding until enemy tanks come by.

------------------

jK.MkIII

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiger:

While on the subject, there should be another ambush marker added: "delayed ambush marker"... For those times when you want to ambush the middle or end of a column of troops/vehicles instead of the lead units.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What situation do you think of, more precisely?

If I want to ambush a column, and have positioned a company or so along the expected route, then I set an ambush point where I want to stop the lead element. This point is targeted by a few units, the others are simply hiding.

On the order phase directly after the ambush is sprung, I un-hide all troops to wreak havoc on the enemy.

If you want the lead elements to slip through, then those should be well ahead of the rest anyway, so just wait hidden until they pass before setting the ambush point.

Cheers

Olle

[Nabla]

If others are having similar experiences, I still have to wonder *why* HQs would be acting differently One hypothesis for this would be that the stealth property (which was +2 for the HQs in my game) helps squads in hiding, but not the HQ itself.

Since this would be a bug, and since CM is by far the best game I've ever played , this is not probable. But I'd like to rule out this possibility so that my troops can sleep better at nights.

[Guest Madmatt]

The biggest factor in deciding a units Ambush skill is in its Experience level. What level was the HQ? If it was Green or even Regular you may have had a dumb LT sticking his head up and looking around while the platoon sargeant was shaking his head yelling for the moron butter bars to get his ass down.

I have not seen any tendency in my HQ's to spring traps early and I can think of several times when I stummbled into a near perfect ambush at less than 20 meters.

They are an artform to perfect, but when they are setup just right, (shiver) man are they mean.

Madmatt

[eba]

I think you have to set ambush points to keep your guys from firing too early. I've used multiple ambush points in the past - for example, setting several points in an arc in front of your position - with good success.

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nabla:

However, the headquarters were much more

problematic. They could not keep their heads

down, but opened fire on enemy units even

though they were further from enemy and

had better cover than rifle squads.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Nabla, and welcome.

I can relate to your problem cos my HQ's seemed trigger happy too. What I used to do was setup some ambush points and let my squads target them. Since I usually don't want my HQ's to expose themselves needlessly I always cancelled their own ambush and just let them hide. Result: The HQ's were often the first ones to open fire.

I've changed my tactic a bit now. What I do now is I set up the ambush points for my squads and a separate point for my HQ pointing to the rear of its position, or just very,very close to it. It seems to work. They tend to keep quiet more often.

I also use this trick for AT teams, when I want to make sure they don't fire prematurely (i.e when I don't want them to fire at all, usually)

------------------

Der ver zwei peanuts, valking down der Strasse, and von vas...assaulted! peanut. Ho-ho-ho-ho.

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju:

Hi Nabla, and welcome.

I can relate to your problem cos my HQ's seemed trigger happy too. What I used to do was setup some ambush points and let my squads target them. Since I usually don't want my HQ's to expose themselves needlessly I always cancelled their own ambush and just let them hide. Result: The HQ's were often the first ones to open fire.

I've changed my tactic a bit now. What I do now is I set up the ambush points for my squads and a separate point for my HQ pointing to the rear of its position, or just very,very close to it. It seems to work. They tend to keep quiet more often.

I also use this trick for AT teams, when I want to make sure they don't fire prematurely (i.e when I don't want them to fire at all, usually)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to ask...

BUT, can you explain that in a little more detail?

Are you suggesting that the Ambush marker for your HQ is set to a location behind the unit so it is intended to be looking away from the enemy so that it won't prematurely open fire?

Can you describe your tactic a little more fully so I can understand how you can get it to work right?

Thanks

-tom w

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Are you suggesting that the Ambush marker for your HQ is set to a location behind the unit so it is intended to be looking away from the enemy so that it won't prematurely open fire?

-tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, Tom, that is what I'm suggesting. I indeed set ambush markers behind certain units like HQ's. But bear in mind that setting an ambush marker doesn't make a unit turn into the direction of the ambush marker, so it'll still be facing the direction you want it to face. But the ultimate goal is to keep it from opening fire. Prematurely has nothing to do with it, since I don't like using my HQ's in an 'offensive' way. They attract waaay too much fire for that.

Hope this explains it a little.

------------------

Der ver zwei peanuts, valking down der Strasse, and von vas...assaulted! peanut. Ho-ho-ho-ho.

[Nabla]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

The biggest factor in deciding a units Ambush skill is in its Experience level. What level was the HQ? If it was Green or even Regular you may have had a dumb LT sticking his head up and looking around while the platoon sargeant was shaking his head yelling for the moron butter bars to get his ass down.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I checked it yesterday, and HQs and original squads were all regular. When hiding, the platoon HQs of all platoon were trigger happier than ordinary squads. Even if determination of trigger happiness is probabilistic, this would be fairly improbable.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

I have not seen any tendency in my HQ's to spring traps early and I can think of several times when I stummbled into a near perfect ambush at less than 20 meters.

They are an artform to perfect, but when they are setup just right, (shiver) man are they mean.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, since I'm afraid there is room for confusion here let me refresh and illustrate the problem once again.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

The battle I was playing was Ham and Jam. After finishing the troops between the bridges I placed three platoons on the bank of the river. Some squads were right in the waterfront, and others were on the small hill something like 10 meters from the river. HQs were a bit further back than any of the usual squads. All units were hiding, not ambushing, and all HQs had stealth +2.

Now in this setup all HQs were constantly popping up and firing on enemy units that were on the other side of the river, while ordinary squads remained nice and quiet although they were closer to the enemy.

I did win the battle, so I can survive with the situation , especially with the hint that Juju gave. However, so far CM has been the one and only game which is so goooooood (and has such a great discussion forum) that I am actually willing to spend some time to even make it better, and that is why I am sharing this non-intuitive game experience here.