3D Hardware on a Mac. Problem. Suffering. Despair.

[Guest G2A]

Great to see the GD finally released. I'm just amazed at how much better than the beta it is. However, I have a problem with it. I can't get my old 3D card to work.

My system:

Powermac 4400 - 80 MB ram

MacMagic 8MB Voodoo1 card

Latest RAVE drivers for it.

Other RAVE games work fine.

Nothing happens. The game looks exactly the same with or without the Village_RAVE libraries.

What should I be doing for CM to work properly?

[Fionn]

Do you have a "sprocket" installed?I remember Charles saying CM needs them (I figure they're kinda like "drivers" for the PC).

P.s. We DID tell you that it was much, much better didn't we?

[Guest G2A]

Sprockets are shared libraries for things like sound and joystick support in games.(i think)

As far as i can tell, everything that should be installed, is installed. Anyone with a mac feel like answering this?

P.S. But it's muchmuchmuch better!

[Colin]

I too have a problem.

The game is forever switching down to 640 x 480!!!

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"Guys the editor is HELLA COOL and you can make it sing like a 2 dollar whore errr never mind that reference..."

-Madmatt

My website!

[Guest Big Time Software]

G2A, before running CM, set your monitor to 640x480 manually. Then run CM and see if your Voodoo kicks in.

Charles

[Guest G2A]

But that would totally screw up my desktop icons!

actually, it doesn't work either. CM crashes when i try to start in 640x480. The beta did that too.

I found another weird thing about this. I noticed that activating the 3dfxGlideLibs caused CM to crash when starting. Why is this? CM isn't even supposed to care about Glide, right? What's even weirder is that removing the GlideLibs and starting CM after the crash made the graphics look better.

What's going on?

[Guest Big Time Software]

Sounds like something screwy with your Voodoo card. Perhaps when the glide libs are present it automatically enters glide mode and shuts down RAVE.

It's been our experience that Voodoo drivers, especially Voodoo 1, on the Mac are not well coded and have lots of bugs.

Charles

[davidh]

Sad to say, but I suspect those of us having trouble may have to upgrade our 3D cards.

I have a beige G3/233 with a processor upgrade to 500 MHz, and a Microconversions 12 MB Voodoo 2 card and 320 MB RAM. The old beta demo looked OK (though not as good as on a friend's B+W G3 with the built-in ATI card), but now the appearance of the gold demo is much worse (and stuck in 640x480).

On the other hand, I saw the gold demo on another friend's G3/400 Pismo (with the 8 MB ATI Mobility chipset) and it looks INCREDIBLE! So I guess it's time to change out my 3D card.

[Guest G2A]

So, should I buy an ATI? Is that the only way to go here, or would a Voodoo3 help?

I don't think my card is that screwed up. Other RAVE games work.

[Lurker]

Does anyone know of a way to force the Gold Demo to use a particular graphics card? For that matter, if you're using multiple inline graphics cards, is there anyway to determine which card is providing the 3D acceleration?

I'm using an ATI Rage Pro card as well as a Voodoo II passthrough card, and everything is working like a champ on my system. However, I had assumed that I was using the Voodoo card to to the 3D graphics. From what I've read here, the Voodoo is problematic, and the Gold Demo is probably defaulting to the ATI card.

System

-9600 w/XLR8 g3 card running at 400 MHz

-System 8.6

-Game Sprockets 1.7.4 (latest as of 5/10/00)

-ATI XClaim VR w/Rage Pro graphics card w/latest ATI drivers

-MicroConversions 12 Meg Voodoo II graphics card w/latest 3DFX Voodoo II Beta Drivers (actually much more stable than the original drivers that shipped with the card)

-384 Megs of RAM, with the Gold Demo running in its default memory partition.

For those who are still having problems with the demo, I'd suggest trying to download the newest version of the drivers for your video card.

http://www.atitech.com will link you to the ati driver download page.

http://www.3dfxgamers.com/view.asp?IOID=37 will link you to the latest beta version of the Voodoo 2 drivers.

If your Voodoo cards are still giving you problems, you may want to take a look for some of ATI's older cards. They should be available for next to nothing, and as long as you get a card w/a Rage Pro chipset, you'll get fairly good graphics at resolutions greater than 640 x 480.

I am a little bit disappointed that the Voodoo II is problematical. It has been a great card for me, giving me a good sharp picture for all of the 3D games that I play.

Tired but Happy,

-Lurker

P.S. Didn't sleep worth a damn last night, spent too much time playing the Gold Demo.

[davidh]

Plenty of other RAVE games work fine for me, too, with the latest drivers and the old Voodoo 2 card, but for now at least, it looks like the gold demo doesn't.

I don't know if Voodoo 3, 4, or 5 will do a better job with RAVE. Does anyone else know? Unless I could be very sure, I think at this point I'd get an ATI card. Heck, the way the technology continues to change, I figure getting a couple years out of a 3D card, much less the computer, is about all I can count on.

That said, I want it to be clear that I think 'CM' is a fantastic product and game. I preordered long ago, wouldn't think of cancelling my order, got more fun out of the beta demo than out of many games I've bought, and have boundless admiration for Charles and Steve and BTS and battlefront for what they've done/are doing. I posted messages to MacGamersLedge, MacGaming, and InsideMacGames today asking them to spread the word about this outstanding game, and will be pushing it on (or buying it for) everyone I know who has a computer

[pford]

Re: how to get a particular video card to work.

For multiple monitors, use the monitor control panel and drag the monitor strip to the monitor you want to use.

Enough of your problems. Now for mine. I have a dual monitor Mac with a voodoo3 2000 and ATI Rage128. I have never gotten the ealier demo to work with the Voodoo card so everything following is for the ATI card only. (BTW it came up with some weird error I faild to write down for the Voodoo card.) I am having two problems. (1) The mouse does not "click", the arrow moves but nothing else.

(2) I get an intemittent disabling of the monitor with a system hang causing a force reboot.

I have been unable to determine if there is an extension conflict or a conflict with anonther program If and when I determine what is the cause I wlill post.

BTS be warned, there is a problem here that did not exist with the beta demo for the Macintosh..

Note" It worked better than the demo for my Powerbook., MacOS 8.5. I have not tried it on an original iMac or an iMac DV I have.

[pford]

*** I don't know how I duplicated the above posting but since I can't really delete it this is second best. Please accept my apologies.

pford

[This message has been edited by pford (edited 05-11-2000).]

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pford:

Re: how to get a particular video card to work.

For multiple monitors, use the monitor control panel and drag the monitor strip to the monitor you want to use.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pford,

This would be a great answer if I was running a multiple monitor setup. Both my ATI Rage Pro and Voodoo II are hooked to the same monitor. The Voodoo II is a passthrough card with nothing but 3D support. Sorry I did not make that clear in my original post

I'm still looking for a way to force Combat Mission to recognize one card versus the other.

Thanks,

-Lurker

[This message has been edited by Lurker (edited 05-10-2000).]

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pford:

Enough of your problems. Now for mine. I have a dual monitor Mac with a voodoo3 2000 and ATI Rage128. I have never gotten the ealier demo to work with the Voodoo card so everything following is for the ATI card only. (BTW it came up with some weird error I faild to write down for the Voodoo card.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the weird error that you get when using the Voodoo card a Mac system error, or is it a really weird error? The exact error number or phrase may shed some light on the cause of the voodoo problems.

And finally with regards to the Voodoo 3 card, what version of the drivers are you using?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

I am having two problems. (1) The mouse does not "click", the arrow moves but nothing else.

(2) I get an intemittent disabling of the monitor with a system hang causing a force reboot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

#1. The mouse won't click... That is a serious problem. Are you using Apple's mouse with the built in driver or are you using a third party mouse and driver? If you're using Apple's mouse and built in driver, I'd check to see if updating the Game Sprockets version 1.7.4 makes a difference. If it is a third party mouse and driver, I'd check to see if there is an update for the driver. If that doesn't work, I'd check the Game Sprockets.

#2 Are you using an Apple OEM Rage 128 card with the stock drivers? If so, I would point any display problems in that direction. The original ATI drivers for the Rage 128 card were extremely flakey. Try hitting ATI's web page (http://www.atitech.com) to see if there is a newer version of the driver software for the card.

Hope some of the advice helps.

-Lurker

[scoop88]

For what it's worth I've run the beta and the gold on a Mac G3 and a G4 with the stuff that was originially on them out of the box and have had no problems.

[pford]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

#1. The mouse won't click... That is a serious problem. Are you using Apple's mouse with the built in driver or are you using a third party mouse and driver? If you're using Apple's mouse and built in driver, I'd check to see if updating the Game Sprockets version 1.7.4 makes a difference. If it is a third party mouse and driver, I'd check to see if there is an update for the driver. If that doesn't work, I'd check the Game Sprockets.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The mouse is an Apple ADB type mouse. As far as I know, all extentions,(ATI, game sprokets, etc.) are up to date. I can reverify this. I check regularly for updates via Version tracker. http://www.versiontracker.com/

Sorry, I don't have a HTML reference available to do this right.

A more frequent problem is that I will be moving around the battle field using the mouse or arrows when the system hangs. CMD-ALT-ESC doesn't do anything and I have to do a hardware reset. I was fooled when using Conflict Catcher because I thought it happened immediately if it was going to happen. It can take several minutes to occur.

The other is that the monitor dies, like the card was turned off, also forcing a hardware reset.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

#2 Are you using an Apple OEM Rage 128 card with the stock drivers? If so, I would point any display problems in that direction. The original ATI drivers for the Rage 128 card were extremely flakey. Try hitting ATI's web page (http://www.atitech.com) to see if there is a newer version of the driver software for the card.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ATI card is an Xclaim128 16Mbytes. It is the one that has a TV.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Hope some of the advice helps.

-Lurker<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the advise, but it is sort of like mine above.

I will have to do the CC test all over to determine if there is a conflict. I wish I knew how to use Macsbug. It might point to where the problem is occuring.

[Berlichtingen]

Smug mode on:

I'm running the demo on a PB G3 500 Firewire at 1024x768 and it runs beautifully

Smug mode off

[pford]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

I'm still looking for a way to force Combat Mission to recognize one card versus the other.

Thanks,

-Lurker<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does the pass through card need drivers(extensions) to be recognized? If so, maybe if you disabled them with the extension manager, the ATI card would work as the default. Worth a try.

Re: 3DFX Voodoo3 2000

I have never gotten CM to work on this card in accelerated graphics mode, software OK but SLOW. I got excited when 3DFX released beta drivers that supported RAVE for this card, but they were, shall we say, suboptimal.

The error message I got when using this card for CM Gold Demo was a CM error window, not a MacOS error. I will have to rerun it to find out what the mesage said but as I recall it was unhappy that something it wanted was not where it expected it to be. I have been spending time trying to get the ATI working because it worked great for the CM beta.

[pford]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

Do you have a "sprocket" installed?I remember Charles saying CM needs them (I figure they're kinda like "drivers" for the PC).

P.s. We DID tell you that it was much, much better didn't we? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FYI: As far as I can tell, CM gold demo will run without game sprockets on many Macs, You just won't get the stereophonic sound effects.

[Guest tom w]

Scoop88

Just a question?

What (exact) kind of G3 are you refering to?

the Beige G3's (straight out of the box) with only 2 megs of on board video ram only show the game in 640x480 with no cool smoke effects or any transparency.

2 megs of video ram will do that to you I figure

Again Not complaining just hoping that info will help out someone else.

There seems to have been NO problems attributed to any of the iMacs or Mac Laptops anywhere, Is that Correct?

It looks like those Voodoo Video cards at least the Voodoo 1 and the Voodoo 2 have caused all kinds of problems?

I trouble shoot mac tech problems all day long

so this is "kinda" like doing work for me, except I'm not working on the other (low priority) problems around here.

I'm not sure I have anything new to add here?

But I'm just trying to help out on the Mac side, trouble shooting video problems.

-tom w

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scoop88:

For what it's worth I've run the beta and the gold on a Mac G3 and a G4 with the stuff that was originially on them out of the box and have had no problems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

G. S. Patton <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

Smug mode on:

I'm running the demo on a PB G3 500 Firewire at 1024x768 and it runs beautifully

Smug mode off<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Berli,

I'm running the demo fine on my 9600/400 with ATI acceleration. However, I would like to try the Voodoo card as well.

Just wait, I'm sure Apple will release a faster PowerBook for less money. Can you hear the dogs of obsolescence baying in the distance? They're coming for you...

-Lurker

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pford:

Thanks for the advise, but it is sort of like mine above.

I will have to do the CC test all over to determine if there is a conflict. I wish I knew how to use Macsbug. It might point to where the problem is occuring.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

The mouse is an Apple ADB type mouse. As far as I know, all extentions,(ATI, game sprokets, etc.) are up to date.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pford,

I can assure you that ADB mice work like a champ with the gold demo, although I suspect that you knew that already.

If you have not checked http://wwwxlr8yourmac.com and read the forums there regarding the ATI 128VR cards. I had planned to replace my Rage Pro VR card with a 128, but the reports on the forum convinced me to wait. I've not been reading the forums recently, but they may have some sort of fix listed up there.

Good luck with the tracking the extension conflict.

-Lurker

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

Just wait, I'm sure Apple will release a faster PowerBook for less money. Can you hear the dogs of obsolescence baying in the distance? They're coming for you... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Berli, I am just waiting for the G4 Powerbook to be released... And then I will laugh at you and dance on the grave of all those unsold G3/500 PBs. BTW, are you planning on converting the SPR sounds to Mac again? That would be great!

------------------

Andreas

[pford]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

pford,

I can assure you that ADB mice work like a champ with the gold demo, although I suspect that you knew that already.

If you have not checked http://wwwxlr8yourmac.com and read the forums there regarding the ATI 128VR cards. I had planned to replace my Rage Pro VR card with a 128, but the reports on the forum convinced me to wait. I've not been reading the forums recently, but they may have some sort of fix listed up there.

Good luck with the tracking the extension conflict.

-Lurker<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I tracked down part of the problem, but it is so bazaar that I can't believe it is all of it. I am using a Powerlogix G3 upgrade card running at 315 MHz with 1 meg backside cache @ 210 MHz, in a Powerwave 132. The odd part is that if I turn off the backside cache, the problem goes away! It slows the computer movement some but not too bad.

I will have to check the wwwxlr8yourmac thread and see if it is any help.

Steve: did you do any funny timing things?

pford