Mannheim Tanker Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Yeah, you're right that the lethal radius isn't 30 yds, but I KNOW that a grenade will throw some shrapnel that far - I've seen it on the ranges many, many times. Not sure if that's a factor of HE or fragmentation. BorderBill, do you happen to have any references that describe how much HE was in a WWII (Allied and German) grenade? Hmmm...I can't even remember how much is in a modern one (for comparison). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderBill Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Unfortunately, I don't have hardly any of my once extensive collection of US Army manuals. After 7 years and about 5 moves, I think my wife has just about trashed them all. I seem to remember that the modern hand grenades had 6 ounces of "Composition B"?. I believe WWII grenades had about the same weight of explosive but of an older, less powerful explosive like TNT. Yes, individual splinters of modern grenades sometimes carry as far as 50 meters this is because of the explosive power and also because the modern grenades have several feet of "piano wire" around the explosive core with the wire being scored (or precut) every 1/2". This causes lots of shrapnel. The WW2 pineapple grenade relied on its casing to provide fragmentation. While the shrapnel from hand grenades will travel far beyond its casualty radius it quickly loses its killing power. It will still cause wounds but is not as likely cause incapacitating wounds. I once read an interesting descripton of the Marines at Khe Sanh where grenade fights with the Vietnamese were taking place at often less than ten feet. The marines learned that the light shrapnel(piano wire) usually wouldn't penetrate their flak vests. They would throw their grenades, turn from the blast, and rely on their vests to protect their vitals. They took lots of shrapnel to their legs but were usually ok. The Vietnamese without any protective vests were killed in large numbers. ------------------ ...But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks, 'Play up! Play up! and play the game!' Vitai Lampada--Sir Henry Newboldt Play the game! Motto of 1st Bn, 50th Infantry, US Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JOCHEN PEIPER: Explain to me why, when my Panther fires at infanty who are in the open, they just stood there as the blast engulfed them... It literally exploded where they were standing and nothing happened to them... They didnt take cover nor did they sustain casualties. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To add to the general comments, on tank's useing MGs vs Inf to me this is correct, especialy with the US, 76mm, German 7.5 cm Kw.K.40 L/48 & 7.5 cm Kw.K.42 L/70. Because their HE rounds wern't that effective vs Inf, their wasn't enough weight to provide a large fragmentation area, to cause alot of shrapnel casualties. Its more practical for them to expend MG ammo then main gun rounds on a target. OTOH the Sherman 75 does much better with its HE round I have noticed then the PzKpfw.IV or V. The Soviets IS-2 is a diferent story it was an breakthrough/support tank,with 2 powerful HE round's,the OF-462 & the later 0F-471. Both these rounds were very good vs Inf & prepared positions. The Inf squad JP's PzKpfw V was fireing at was despite the graphic representation not standing in 1 clump but spread out across 20ms of ground. if I have understood the other discussions on this, which means the 7.5 cm SprGr, round impacted with no damage due to the squads spaceing. I look at it from my own observations as the tank literaly haveing to target 1 infantry man to get a kill with an HE round, and haveing to fire upto & over 3 rounds for the 76mm, & 7.5cm L/48 & L/70 to get an casualty but thats just my own estimation from my game experience. Regards, John Waters [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 07-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacestick Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: Yeah, you're right that the lethal radius isn't 30 yds, but I KNOW that a grenade will throw some shrapnel that far - I've seen it on the ranges many, many times. Not sure if that's a factor of HE or fragmentation. BorderBill, do you happen to have any references that describe how much HE was in a WWII (Allied and German) grenade? Hmmm...I can't even remember how much is in a modern one (for comparison). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The casualty radius of the M26 grenade is 18 metres, fragments out to 180 metres from memory and it contains 4 oz of comp B explosive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 If the 37mm gun is so ineffective against infantry, why even HAVE HE rounds? If the Stuart was buttoned, it couldn't use its .50 cal MG. What else are the other crewmen supposed to do if they aren't going to fire the main gun? Bad HE is still better than NO HE. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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