Chris Jenkins Posted March 5, 1999 Share Posted March 5, 1999 What kind of system will you have for personalities? Can you create names (Stahler, Steinbauer, ect.)? What about heros? Will they be generated from morale checks? If so, will they be taken from a preset pool of personalities? ------------------ Climb to Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 5, 1999 Share Posted March 5, 1999 There are no "personalities" associated with units. This is for practical purposes. In general you will command at least 120 individual soldiers, and as much as 1300-1500. So I think you can see that personalities (like Close Combat) won't work here. There are just too many individuals for you to "get to know" and grow "attached to". Each unit will have its own personality to a degree, based on training level, experience, weapons, etc. All of this and a lot more comes into play for morale and other considerations. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 03-05-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted March 6, 1999 Share Posted March 6, 1999 I can understand that you'll hardly be able to get to know your individual men on this scale, but I still think it would be nice if units were labeled by they're squadleader's name (anyone remember the old "Fields of Fire"?).. I think it helps to immerse you in the game if you're ordering PFC Howard's squad to take the farmhouse, rather than clicking on H.Inf Unit #27 and giving it an advance path to the wooden building. Chris Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted March 6, 1999 Share Posted March 6, 1999 I have to agree with the Chris's. Identification of a unit as squad # 15 is really sterile. I liked the way SP assigned a leader within every unit. It definitely adds to the immersion factor. Although SP didn't take the additional step of identifying a squad as "Roark's Squad" whenever you accessed the squad. Which sort of negated the advantage of providing a leader for each sqaud in the first place. It's a shame that outstanding leaders are not provided for with single man units. It was interesting w/i SL determining how best to utilize their superior leadership qualities. Perhaps this is an issue you can readdress for future modules. Or are outstanding leaders included w/i the HQ units? Will HQ units have capabilities similiar to SL such as improving morale and fire direction of line units? Or will they strictly influence reaction times of units under their command? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 6, 1999 Share Posted March 6, 1999 I should have been a wee bit more specific. HQ units do have an individual leader. This guy can either make the troops under him perform better or worse in several different ways. There are a few tidbits about this in the Combat Mission FAQ. We understand why people would rather have "Schultz's Squad" instead of 3rd Sqd, 2nd Plt, 9th Co, 2nd Bat. The problem here is one of scale. If you have an average force of 3 companies plus support units, you are talking about 100 units under your command. That means we have to come up witha minimum of 150 unique names to allow for variation and greater unit counts. Then we have to do this for 6 different nationalities (Ger, US, UK, Pol, Cnd, and Fr). 900 names MINIMUM is a pretty huge number. Question is, where do you want us to spend our time? Coming up with names, or putting in more varied formation types? Unfortunately, we don't have endless time and resources, so somethings are just going to have to wait for future releases. This is one such feature. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted March 6, 1999 Share Posted March 6, 1999 There is no doubt in my mind that at least one of the people who post here would be willing to make up that 900 name list for you. I don't even think there would be a copyright problem with such a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 How about simply allowing the players to rename the squads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 Yeah what Moon said! And let scenario designers specify names from the outset as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 I'm with them. I'd like to see a variable for a few characters of text. Let's you off the hook, and probably not too bothersome to program. TacOps has a similar facility, and it's handy, although admittedly sometimes it's used for more basic ID purposes as units are otherwise fairly anonymous. Not quite comparing apples with apples. But I'd still like to be able to ID units in CM. Rocky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted March 7, 1999 Author Share Posted March 7, 1999 I will do it! I will have 1,000 nationally accurate names by tomorrow. I am obsessive-compulsive and make lists as a hobby (food, army units, ect.) I have reorganized whole armies in my head, now I might be able to do something with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 Hear, hear! Chris, please do. I agree that this would greatly enhance the 'feel' of the game. After all, having 100 units under your doesn't mean you don't know the name of ANY of the leaders. If BTS got a list of 150(200?) * 6 'typical' names I hardly think the programming effort to use them properly would be very big. I know it's mostly eye-candy but during a long Close Combat campaign it's very satisfying to look at the individual soldiers statistics. Individual soldiers would be too much detail, but reading the aftermath and remembering how Sgt. Jones's Squad took out BOTH the German HMGs does wonders for game-immersion. Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 Still, to be worth anything, you must be able to see the names whenever you access a unit.. someone mentioned the flaw of sp only putting it on the unit info screen. That may cause some interface redesign issues which are probably alot more signifigant than cominig up with a few names.. the names themselves really shouldn't be a problem. If a scenario ever had more than 200 units a side, your probably wouldn't notice the any repeats.. and of course, who says there wouldn't be a couple of guys with the same last names in real life... also, I think you could safely share alot of the british and american name pool. Finally, this is an excellent chance for me (and the other posters on the board) to have their very own unit. I may never get a commander named after me in ASL, but maybe I could have a Cpl Rourke or even Oberleutenant von der Heusen in CM. -Chris "all I want is my own rifle squad" Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 Chris, What do you mean by "nationally" accurate? For example, for the Americans I hope that does *not* mean you'll only use Anglo derived names like Smith and Jones. You'll have to include all sorts of ethnic variation. For example, in a US War Dept. publication called "Small Unit Actions (in WWII)" I have come across names as diverse as Schneider, Lapres, Medeiros, Boggetto, Putzek, Aguzzi, Bacho, Rupinski, Youso, Borowski, Zelepsky, Lopez, Heidelberger, Gano, Jarosewicz, Wojcicki, Drenzek, Panich, and Dombrowski. (See? I can be obsessive too!) Marko Peric (diverse Australian ) [This message has been edited by Marko (edited 03-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted March 7, 1999 Share Posted March 7, 1999 Why don't we take this one step further and have dead leaders remain on the field. Only the leaders not the squads. Clicking on the lost leader would bring up his name. Thought it might give some atmosphere in having a fallen leader laying in the middle of territory that is still being fought over. Perhaps we could have an order to pick up a fallen leader. [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-07-99).] [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted March 8, 1999 Share Posted March 8, 1999 I said "alot" of the names could be shared.. that is to say, instead of 300 brit names and 300 american names, I think you could get away with say, 200 brits, 200 americans, and 100 that are common enough between the two. That still leaves plenty of room in the melting pot. Chris Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 8, 1999 Share Posted March 8, 1999 CRourke, I only noticed your post after I had replied to Chris Jenkins' post. It's just a coincidence that you both share the same first name. I did take note of the "alot" modifier in your post. To be historically correct (which has nothing to do with politically correct), one would have to acknowledge that American forces were far more diverse than British forces in terms of ethnicity. Another thing to remember, is that while there were some Irish names in the British forces, you would have to add some more to the American forces even *after* this name sharing. I remember reading somewhere that the population of current Irish descendents in the US far exceed (by a factor of at least 10) that of the current population of Ireland. Marko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted March 8, 1999 Author Share Posted March 8, 1999 IT IS DONE! I have emailed the 1,000 promised names. They are in five groups of two-hundred. Each nation had names that match it. Although accurate, it is by no means ethnocentric. Canadians are a French, English mix, Americans have hispanic names worked in, and the Germans have a couple of "vons." If BTS wishes to use it, the option of "pool sharing" is still open. Even so, each side had two-hundred unique names to draw from. They are all real names and there are no duplicates. BTW, Stahler (of ASL fame) is included. ------------------ Climb to Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted March 8, 1999 Share Posted March 8, 1999 See? I knew someone would do it... Of course, I thought it would take a week or two at least - I did not anticipate a rogue list-maker cranking it out in 24 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted March 8, 1999 Author Share Posted March 8, 1999 Rourke! Sorry I did not see your post before sending the names. I do not think there is a "Rourke" in it. Well, if BTS includes the list in the game, maybe they'll work you in. Seems fair,since there is already a "Jenkins." ------------------ Climb to Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 9, 1999 Share Posted March 9, 1999 All I can say is there better be a Kelly in there somewhere. I might have to play the weak Amis BUT I'd do it just to command myself (schizophrenia mode activated ) on the field of battle. IF BTS is willing to incorporate this I vote we be allowed to add to the name database once released and rename units. I still get a kick out of naming units after friends etc and sending them into battle. Really hurts when they die you know ? PLEASE BTS consider it. We're being good I swear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted March 9, 1999 Author Share Posted March 9, 1999 Poles? I thought only five nations were included. Well, if they are in, and BTS agrees to do this, I'll make another list. If BTS stays with the "no names" system, I'll just beg for the renaming idea. If they decide to let us rename, I'll send the list to whoever requests it. That way, you'll have a library of names. ------------------ Climb to Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 9, 1999 Share Posted March 9, 1999 Only 5 nations are included (UK, USA, Canadian, French? and German I think) But u have to remember lots of Poles fought with the UK, lots of Poles who lived in America fought in that army. Hell even Navajo indians (those who weren't doing code talking ) fought in line infantry units. Don't forget about Australians too (rare but still there). Lots of Irish fought in the British Army. And people of Irish descent often formed entire regiments. Some Divisions were thought of as being "Irish" divisions even.. So, it's not as simple as just 5 countries there are lots of subsections and indeed foreigners who fought for these countries. A lot of jews fought for the British under assumed names also after escaping from Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 9, 1999 Share Posted March 9, 1999 (NOTE: Charles is still away so we haven't discussed the naming thing yet) We are actually going to include 5 nations from the get go; US, GB, Pol, Cnd, German. The Free French will be included in a follow up scenario/campaign pack (maybe a few more vehicles?). Historically these units were organized along national lines as DIVISIONS and fought in significant numbers in NW Europe. Our initial logic was to have all non-US/GB Allied troops be either US or GB (depending on their org and equipment) in appearance. However, the Canadian and Polish forces fought some very significant battles that we wanted to focus on (i.e. vs. 12th SS). We got to thinking about it and decided that they really should be broken out onto their own. Same goes for the Free French, but we don't have any battles in mind for them so we decided to leave them for an expansion. We have *no* idea what we are going to do with North Africa and Italy. This is where every Commonwealth nation saw battle (India, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, etc.). What a headache Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 9, 1999 Share Posted March 9, 1999 Of course I have to mention here the Polish Airborne brigade as an example which is probably best known for its participation in the Market Garden campaign. As to the names, Chris, tell me if you need any help in putting together the polish names. I suggest starting with Turewicz (for reasons I am sure you will guess right... ) but I can provide you with a couple hundred others easily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted March 9, 1999 Share Posted March 9, 1999 I think there were many foreigners in the german army. On top of the list were the French who I believe were the most frequent foreigners in the german army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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