Cyrano Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Allright, so maybe this is OT but I honetly think only BTS (and those what support it) can truly "feel my pain". Nobody loves R. Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" more than I. Nobody. Some of y'all may love it AS MUCH, but none more. First, then, I had to endure the indignity of that truly HORRID Verhooven movie, forever entitled "The Movie that has No Name" and now HASBRO is planning to eviscerate my M.I. with their dumb-as-dirt looking RTS game...the "feature" list: *No pod drops, just those damn dropships (they worked in Terra Nova, they didn't in the movie)... *M.I. troopers fighting cheek and jowl...apparently we will lose area-effect weapons sometime in the coming century...and the French will lose the receipe for ice. *Power armor that looks like...ah, never mind... The point? BTS...I KNOW you've got a lot on your plate but I bet you've got a soft spot in your heart for the "Roughnecks". I'll wait (and buy every CM that comes out in the process) but I've got 4-5 decades left on this planet if the actuaries are correct...think about it...PLEASE? All my best, and thanks again for CM... Cyrano ------------------ "Watching others make friends, as a dog makes friends. I mark the manner of these canine courtesies and say, 'Thank God, here comes another enemy'" -- Rostand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Amen brother. I nearly died of shame during the movie, luckily I couldn't hear the horrible soundtrack because the late Robert was rolling in his grave so much. Dougie Howser as a Colonel? While we may or may not approve or agree with his political stance, the book was ... wonderful. And to see what Hollywood and Hasbro have done with it it a travesty. While I don't know if BTS could take this on (I do want CM2 after all) they would certainly do it justice. Mind you the girls were cute. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penubly Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I agree completely. I hated "Melrose Space!" And I hate what has happened to the MI and the ideas in the novel. That is why I am skeptical of the upcoming Tolkien and Card movies. ------------------ Always with the negative waves, Moriarty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Yeah, I dread what's going to happen to Lord of the Rings. They have Liv Taylor as a sword swinging Elvish princess for Christ's sake! Starship Troopers remains one of my favorite all time books, and I think Heinlein's political view of the future is just great! I don't see it as too fascistic, more a return to the morality and responsibilites we had around in the very early 20th century, say Teddy Roosevelt o'clock. Civic responsibility? Raise your kids right? Maybe I'm a fascist... It was said the game will be more like the book, but without drop capsules? I still think one of the great parts of the book was when he entered his capsule and waited like a link in an MG to be shot out into planetfall. What a great book! I remember re-reading it in the airport on the way down to MCRD San Diego for fruitcamp...getting psyched... Sgt. Zim, where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Some of y'all may love it AS MUCH, but none more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well then, I'll class myself in the "AS MUCH" group. I'm a huge fan of the book, and am also a fan of the very good Avalon Hill game (the original late-70's version that was true to the book, not the totally different late-90's movie tie-in). In fact, AH's SST was my very first wargame back in 1980. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>First, then, I had to endure the indignity of that truly HORRID Verhooven movie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Here's where we differ somewhat. I was appalled by the early reports of the movie (mainly "no power armor?!", and the promotional bits I saw on TV also turned me off). I didn't go see it, and only bought it on video due to boredom. I approached it with very low expectations. But, I was pleased with the inclusion of several book details that I just knew would be changed/cut: the main character is Johnnie Rico from B.A., not "James Ridgeport" from L.A., the Rodger Young (hull# 17[7]6 - a nice nod to Heinlein, I thought), History & Moral Philosophy class, public floggings, the whole issue of citizenship(voting) only for veterans... But, to my surprise, they were included. Now, I grant you that there were many (many!) changes. But, the overall effect still felt "right" to me, and mostly true to the overall "sprit" of the book (maybe a bit more cynical, but it was made in the 90's, not the 50's). In fact, it's become one of my favorite films. I've watched it about as many times as I've read the novel (the far side of half a dozen). I can truly see where a fan of the book could be turned off by the film, so I make no attempt at "converting" you; instead I simply state that I do like both (the book more, obviously, but the film as well). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>now HASBRO is planning to eviscerate my M.I. with their dumb-as-dirt looking RTS game...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now, to me this is an entirely different issue. I initially had hope for the CGI "Roughnecks: Starship Trooper Chronicles" (hey, some sort of power armor at last!) until it became another toy-selling franchise with no correlation to the original work (neither the book nor the movie). Similarly, the upcoming Hasbro game doesn't look appealing. So, I, too, draw the line at the film, but behind it rather than in front of it. That said, the book is truly great. I wish to everyone who has only seen the film as much joy in discovering the book as I had discovering Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep after seeing Blade Runner (an excellent film, but the book offers vistas not explored). obligatoryCMcontent: A true-to-the-book Starship Troopers would make an excellent CM 6 subject (I think that's where we're up to). Wendell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well then, I'll class myself in the "AS MUCH" group. I'm a huge fan of the book, and am also a fan of the very good Avalon Hill game (the original late-70's version that was true to the book, not the totally different late-90's movie tie-in). In fact, AH's SST was my very first wargame back in 1980.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That game is beautifully done.The presentation is marvelous,from the box cover to the wonderful photos in the back of the rulebook.They really went out of the way to capture the mood of the book,and it's one hell of a great game to boot.My only complaint is that the game loses a lot of its magic if you had to play solitaire,as many of us used to have to do before email,though I recall someone wrote an article for 'The General' which outlined a way to play solitaire by randomizing Arachnid play(we used to have to devise kludges like that before there were computers,y'know ) BTW,I also thought the movie was garbage,but I knew that going in.I only went because some friends were going.And I still regretted it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Hey Wendell - SNAP! My first ever board wargame was Starship Troopers too..in 1981 if I remember correctly. A friend and I played it death over about a year, even ended up making new unit counters, alien-types etc. I`ve sold a lot of my other board games over the years but ST remains on the shelf. As for the movie, I would have preferred a deep, dark version rather than the intentionally comical caper we actually saw. Still, I`m glad they made it. I saw it many times at the cinema and HAD to add it to the video collection. The book, of course is a classic and one I`ve read many times. ------------------ "No Regrets" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Starship Troopers - the only film that I *almost* walked out of. After only 15 minutes if my memory is right. Heaping pile of crap that it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Well if you are such a huge SST fan than no doubt your are avidly watching teh downright OUTSTANDING SST: Roughneck Chronicles CGI animated series (44 30 min episodes) that has been shown on BKN and Sci Fi channel. If not go to: www.roughneckchronicles.com and enjoy. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Heh, it seems there are several "grognard" Starship Troopers players here . Lately I've been re-examining the TO&E given in the book as compared to the 1976 AH game's (as strange as it may sound, partly due to CM), and have some rough notes on the subject (http://www.bham.net/users/wendell/midiv.txt) . Comments to "wendell@bham.net" are quite welcome (encouraged in fact). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Oberly: I recall someone wrote an article for 'The General' which outlined a way to play solitaire by randomizing Arachnid play(we used to have to devise kludges like that before there were computers,y'know )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, that's why I'd (half-seriously) love to see BTS put SST on the back burner (after all major WW II theaters, of course). I believe you're referring to the "Alone Against the Bugs" article by Rick Mathews from the 1983 Vol. 20, Num. 4 issue of The General. If you don't have it, I could mail you a photocopy gratis (my email address is above - this applies to any other boardgame '76 SST fans, since back issues of The General are now tough to find since Hasbro has swallowed AH). Your point that computers could automate all this is more reason for it to be done by BTS or others. Damn the inferior sludge that Hasbro is passing off as SST: I want my "bacon fry"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Ahh memories.......The General and I too am one of those who loved Starship Troopers from AH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philistine Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I remember AH's Starship Troopers. My brother and I used to play it. Take a look at the game Armies of Armageddon: Wargame Designer's Kit 2K over at www.shrapnelgames.com . It's a good turn-based game/game design kit also made by an independent. Actually, he used to be with Battlefront before he moved over to Shrapnel. Someone was doing a Starship Troopers conversion (it was being discussed on the boards a couple of months ago, but I haven't heard anything lately). It should work fairly well for it (although the Bug's tunnels will be a bit tricky, I imagine). I really enjoy the basic game (and some of the mods), but haven't been playing it much lately because of CM. Another game from an independent designer well worth supporting. --Philistine [This message has been edited by Philistine (edited 07-20-2000).] [This message has been edited by Philistine (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philistine: Take a look at the game Armies of Armageddon: Wargame Designer's Kit [...] Someone was doing a Starship Troopers conversion [...] the Bug's tunnels will be a bit tricky<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I bought that game several months ago, with my own SST conversion in mind, as well as an Ogre conversion (though I haven't gotten around to either due to the number of wonderful, distracting titles coming out - like CM). AoA: W2K is a good game that's wonderfully configurable, allowing the creation of both new unit stats and (2D) graphics. CM probably has a ways to go before reaching this level of editability (AoA has been around for several years after all, in some form or another). It would be nice if someday players could easily create their own "CM"-type "universes". Until then, I await CM: Eastern Front and (less-realistically, though it'd be a dream come true, CM: The Bug War). BTW, the full text of Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel is available online (in English) at a Russian-language site in Israel (O...K... ): http://www.neystadt.org/moshkow/iso/HYNLINE/troopers2.txt. (It can sometimes take two or three loadings to actually connect). Though I own two printed editions of the book, being able to computer search the text makes it much easier to find what I'm looking for - the file can be downloaded/saved (it "claims" to be a .txt file, and it works as such, but it's "really" an .html file). Wendell [This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I believe you're referring to the "Alone Against the Bugs" article by Rick Mathews from the 1983 Vol. 20, Num. 4 issue of The General. If you don't have it, I could mail you a photocopy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I appreciate that,Wendell,but I do indeed have that issue.I *would* love to have copies of the SST articles in the issue that featured the game(Vol 13#6,I think-amazing how that stuff sticks with you),because mine was,err,destroyed a long time ago.And I just missed getting it on Ebay a few months ago. A great H2H game,especially satisfying to fry the Terran engineers with a Heavy Weapons Beam. I believe AH still had unopened copies on their web site for sale last time I checked a few months ago. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Hi, Mike, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Vol 13#6,I think<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, fellow old-timer, but Vol 14, #5 is as far back as I have (and that's a reprint). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A great H2H game<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I fully agree! The suspense of what the Bugs would send up next against you was great (the reverse, as the Bugs, was a tense management game of exposing your limited resources only when and where they could do the most good). [obCM: not unlike the Americans vs. the Germans (hey, I'm trying to stay on topic )] <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I believe AH still had unopened copies on their web site for sale last time I checked a few months ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, copies seem to still be available at http://www.hasbrocollectors.com/product.cfm?product=133 - search for "STARSHIP TROOPER" $35 as opposed to "STARSHIP MOVIE" $30 (as near as I can tell). Wendell [This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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