US 75mm/76mm AT Guns?

[Bombardier]

Hi guys, maybe you can help me out. So far my research as produced the following:

U.S.INFANTRY DIVISION

(c.14,000men) Division HQ & HQ Company

(3 x 57mm Ml anti-tank gun, 3 x .50 cal HMG, 6 x 2.36" M9Al rocket-launcher [bazooka]) plus Military Police Platoon (c. 260 men)

INFANTRY REGIMENT (x3)(c. 3,200 men)

HQ Company (5 x.50 HMG & 7 x bazooka) (c.100 men)

I Battalion (c.860 men)

HQ Company (3 x 57mm Ml, 2 x.50 HMG, 2 x .30 HMG & 2.36" bazooka

A, B & C Companies (each 2 x 81 mm mortar, 3 x 60mm mortar, 2 x . 50 HMG, 2 x. 30 HMG, 2 x.30 LMG & 9 x bazooka)

II Battalion (c. 860 men)

HQ Company (as above)

D, E & F Companies (as above)

III Battalion (c. 860 men)

HQ Company (as above)

G, H & I Companies (as above) (no 10th-12th Companies)

13th Company (6 x 105mm M2Al howitzer, 3 x .50 HMG & 9 x bazooka)

14th Company (6 x 57mm Ml, 3 x .50 HMG & 9 x bazooka)

MEDIUM ARTILLERY BATTALION, 155m MlAl (tractor-drawn)(c. 530 men)

HQ Company(10 x bazooka)

A, B & C Batteries (each 4 x MlAl, 7 x .50 HMG & 10 x bazooka)

FIELD ARTILLERY BATTALION, 105m M2Al (truck-drawn) (x 3)(c. 520 men)

HQ Company(10 x bazooka)

A. B & C Batteries (each 4 xM2Al, 7 x .50 HMG & 10 x bazooka)

RECONNAISSANCE TROOP, MECHANIZED (c. 250 men)

(13 x M8 armoured car, 5 x M3 half-track, 3 x .50 HMG & 5 x bazooka)

ENGINEER COMBAT BATTALION (c. 640 men) HQ Company (2 x bazooka)

A, B & C Companies (each 4 x.50 HMG, 6 x .30 LMG & 9 x bazooka)

MEDICAL BATTALION (c. 460 men)

HQ Company

A, B & C Companies (each 10 x fl-ton ambulance)

SIGNAL COMPANY (c. 220 men)

(6 x .50 HMG & 5 x bazooka)

QUARTERMASTER COMPANY (c.190 men)

(59 trucks, 13 x .50 HMG & 5 x bazooka)

ORDNANCE LIGHT MAINTENANCE COMPANY (c.140 men)

(5 x .50 HMG & 5 x bazooka)

ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY AUTO-WEAPONS BATTALION(c. 830 men) (attached one per division)

HQ Company

A, B & C Batteries (each 8 x 37mm MlA2 or 40mm Bofors & 8 x.50 HMG)

TANK BATTALION (c. 740 men) (attached one or two per division)

HQ Company (2 x M4 Sherman [75mm])

A, B & C Companies (each 17 x M4 [75mm] &

2 x M4 [105mm])

D Company (17 x M5 Stuart or M24 Chaffee)

TANK DESTROYER BATTALION (c. 700 men) (attached one or two per division)

HQ Company (6 x M8)

A, B & C Companies (each 12 x GMC, predominantly M10 with some M18/M36)

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If you notice there are no 75mm/76mm AT guns attached at the division level. Just that POS 57mm. Nor have I found any in the airborne divisions or "light" armor divisions.

Can anyone tell me where these weapons were attached. It does not seem like they were used at all. Were they that rare?

(table from Osprey Military's The Ardennes Offensive V US Corps & XVIII US (Airborne) Corps)

[JediJobu]

Hey, I'm not sure about the answer,

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.

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but darn...

Great Research!

[Guest Offwhite]

I believe the 76 AT guns were what made up the Tank Destroyer units in some formations. Some TD units were self-propelled (M10, M18, M36) and others were towed 76's.

[Teutonicc]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Offwhite:

I believe the 76 AT guns were what made up the Tank Destroyer units in some formations. Some TD units were self-propelled (M10, M18, M36) and others were towed 76's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the Battle of the Bulge by Parker in the back it mentions independent units. Under these units it mentions Towed TD Battalions consisting of 36 3in guns. It also mentions that practical operational strength of the tank and TD battalions around 85%.

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Teutonicc

[Bombardier]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Teutonicc:

In the Battle of the Bulge by Parker in the back it mentions independent units. Under these units it mentions Towed TD Battalions consisting of 36 3in guns. It also mentions that practical operational strength of the tank and TD battalions around 85%.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That seems to be a paltry number of guns considering what the US was up against.

I find it hard to believe that the Department of ordnance refused to issue the correct weapon knowing the ineffectiveness of the 57mm against the late model Germans.

If this is indeed the case I will have to stop “Cherry Picking” 75/76mm AT Guns for the US and start using the 57mm more.

I have a feeling the next PBEM I play. I’m going to be steamrolled

[IntelWeenie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bombardier:

I find it hard to believe that the Department of ordnance refused to issue the correct weapon knowing the ineffectiveness of the 57mm against the late model Germans.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the 57mm (and Brit 6-pdr) are both actually pretty decent once you get Tungsten ammo. Sure, they're not 100% effective on frontal shots vs. Panthers, but how many guns are?

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Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses.

-Dudley Do-right

[Guest Offwhite]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bombardier:

That seems to be a paltry number of guns considering what the US was up against.

I find it hard to believe that the Department of ordnance refused to issue the correct weapon knowing the ineffectiveness of the 57mm against the late model Germans.

If this is indeed the case I will have to stop “Cherry Picking” 75/76mm AT Guns for the US and start using the 57mm more.

I have a feeling the next PBEM I play. I’m going to be steamrolled

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the things that I kept noticing in Raymond Gantter's "Roll Me Over" was how his platoon fought regularly at less than 50% strength. Made me cringe to think about starting a CM battle with platoons consisting of two 8-man squads!

Also, I don't think I'd qualify the 3" gun as cherry-picking, since towed guns don't tend to be real survivable. It is kind of fun to see if you can pick good side-shot ambushes with a few 57s though.

[Slapdragon]

76mm AT guns were part of independent battalions of 36 guns. Each Army had a battalion or two of towed guns, and an Army Group would have several. They were used to seal off armored penetrations (officiallY) but ended up Infantry support weapons. 3rd Army lost 24 towed AT guns of all types in September 1944, so someone was using them were they could get blown up.

The 57mm was considered the largest AT gun that the Infantry could deal with because the 3inch (76) could not be towed by a Jeep and needed dozer support to dig in. The US Army was more smitten by tracked AT guns, of which is had a bunch. At the same time as 3rd Army had 1 battalion of towed 76, it had 3 battalions of M36, 2 battalions of Hellcat, and 1 Battalion of M10 (converting to M36). Infantry divisions in the line often had a TD battalion parted out and assigned to infantry battalions, and a tank battalion parted out and also assigned (usually M10s early and M36s later) and might be the hunting area of an M36 (which used hit and run tactics and was less often assigned to Infantry formations).

The best books I have to show this are Men of the 704th and Reluctant Valor, both on the 704th TD Battalion, and Patton At Bay, on the 3rd Army in Moselle. Both books are a real pain in the butt to get a hold of, since they are essentially PHD dissertations or bound Oral histories, but they are incredibly detailed and a dream to read.

[Bombardier]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon:

76mm AT guns were part of independent battalions of 36 guns. Each Army had a battalion or two of towed guns, and an Army Group would have several. They were used to seal off armored penetrations (officiallY) but ended up Infantry support weapons. 3rd Army lost 24 towed AT guns of all types in September 1944, so someone was using them were they could get blown up.

The 57mm was considered the largest AT gun that the Infantry could deal with because the 3inch (76) could not be towed by a Jeep and needed dozer support to dig in. The US Army was more smitten by tracked AT guns, of which is had a bunch. At the same time as 3rd Army had 1 battalion of towed 76, it had 3 battalions of M36, 2 battalions of Hellcat, and 1 Battalion of M10 (converting to M36). Infantry divisions in the line often had a TD battalion parted out and assigned to infantry battalions, and a tank battalion parted out and also assigned (usually M10s early and M36s later) and might be the hunting area of an M36 (which used hit and run tactics and was less often assigned to Infantry formations).

The best books I have to show this are Men of the 704th and Reluctant Valor, both on the 704th TD Battalion, and Patton At Bay, on the 3rd Army in Moselle. Both books are a real pain in the butt to get a hold of, since they are essentially PHD dissertations or bound Oral histories, but they are incredibly detailed and a dream to read. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the information. There a few good "out of print" book stores in NY,NY. One of them (so I'm told) has an extensive military section.

I'll look for them there.

My research continues......