Colin Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 I was just playing a QB as the Allies and I was looking at info for my various units and I click on this Axis Arty Spotter to see which units were targeting him. I noticed this Now there is no possible way for any of my units to know that this guy controls a 150mm battery!!! Even if they saw 150mm shells falling all around no one would know who was controling them! Just wondering if anyone could come up with a real reason why it says what guns he controls. I think that this needs to be changed in whatever the next patch is. I was playing with full FOW BTW. Thanks for your time. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 I have always been from the "camp" that is requesting more FOW and less information and no roster. I'm glad Colin brought this up. Its a good point. "What can my guys really actually "know" about the enemy units they encounter?" I think this issue is related to the question of whether an enemy unit's experience level can be known (i.e. Veteran Green Crack whatever). Some of us here would like MORE Fog of War and some here want things like Rosters and more unit info and more micromanagement ability. I have been on record here as stated the Map should NOT be able to be viewed in as much detail and totallity as is now afforded each player. Anyway this thread should stay focused on what kinds of things you can figure out about enemy units and knowing that this one unit is calling in a 105 arty barage is WAY too much info. If he is a lone man and he has binoc's maybe he could be a Sharp Shooter? maybe a commander? But that detailed info about how this one man can call in 105 arty is just too much. I think. BUT... This is still the VERY best wargame I have ever played. The design, AI, Game play and Fun Factor, (and replayability) are all WAY high! Thanks BTS. There is plenty of whinning and bitching in this forum but it is still THE BEST game out there! (and you can play the SAME CD on both the MAC and PC) -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now there is no possible way for any of my units to know that this guy controls a 150mm battery!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes there is, by determining the size of the lenses on his binoculars. The larger the lenses, the larger the shell. Obviously someone on the allied side had a lense gauge handy and determined the calibur of shells with a quick measurement. If it was a spotter for an 81mm, and he was far away, then it would have probably been to difficult to gauge. But with a 150 it's fairly easy. Hope this helps ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive [This message has been edited by Kingfish (edited 08-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 9, 2000 Author Share Posted August 9, 2000 No arguments there. This is the best game ever. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grognerd_Fogman Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 In regards to too much info. A game I was in recently, I could make out a light tank but what type yet when I looked at its stats, it showed the gun, armor thickness...well bout everything but the name.... ------------------ Thanks for Athskin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grognerd_Fogman: In regards to too much info. A game I was in recently, I could make out a light tank but what type yet when I looked at its stats, it showed the gun, armor thickness...well bout everything but the name.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm pretty sure that is "generic" info for the general type of vehicle your troops have (mis?)identified. I've seen this data change markedly once I get a specific identification. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 10, 2000 Author Share Posted August 10, 2000 Just bringing this back up to the top. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted August 10, 2000 Share Posted August 10, 2000 Personally, I really wish that the "last known location" marker would go away after about one minute or so and not remain until that unit is 're sighted'. This is especially bad when defending because you may want your troops to 'hide' but what is the point if you have the big iron cross or US star sitting on top of your location for the next 1000 years. Those last known location markers are also a little too 'spot on' for my tastes too ... just aiming at the little symbol with area fire is usually sufficient to destoy the unit. I know, I know, you can always shift your location, but sometimes when defending it can be difficult to do. You also can't confuse the enemy as to which unit they are looking at since the old 'last known location' marker only goes away when that specific unit is re sighted. Actually, I would rather not have a last known location marker at all. I think that is one item we can do without entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 10, 2000 Author Share Posted August 10, 2000 Agree with the suggestion that they should dissapear within a minute. I'm looking for an answer for BTS on this one cuz this is definetly a bug. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 10, 2000 Author Share Posted August 10, 2000 grrr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 10, 2000 Share Posted August 10, 2000 Remember that in general, when we're talking about FOW, there is a limit to how confusing it's practical to make things. You can reduce the amount of information a person has about their opponent - but when you start actually _making_ things confusing, that's when it gets really complicated. Tom mentioned the map debate which surfaced a while ago (and possibly not for the first time). I think this is a very good example of unnecessary (and more importantly, impractical) FOW. If you're going to display a map that is not 100% accurate, you have to _make_ it inaccurate. This would be a programming nightmare - how do you take a map which the game has generated, and then distort it to make it inaccurate? Either you show the map as-is, or you don't show it at all. So you blank out unexplored parts of the map. Either you have a black shroud which recedes as you advance, or you have a paper-style map image showing the rough layout of the battlefield. In my eyes, this is far too gamey for Combat Mission. In almost every battle situation, you're going to have glimpsed the battlefield from some angle, and have a pretty good idea of the layout. You might not know the exact position of every wall and tree - but neither do you know so little that it merits a total blackout. To model your perception of the battlefield would be far, far too complex. The fact is, you can't have grey areas in a game like you can in your mind - either something is there or it's not. Combat Mission does not model what's in your mind - what's in your mind is gleaned from what CM models. So you ask yourself "is there a building near that bridge?", and check the map to see. The map can't just say "maybe" as your mind could - and it can't just not depict the bridge, because you know it's there. So it has to show you the way things really are. So to bring this back to the original topic, FOW isn't an easy thing to model. I think Combat Mission does it very well - but ultimately, there can be no "maybe" - any FOW has to be a specific mechanism for hiding things from you. For the purposes of gaming, any slightly unrealistic aspects of FOW don't really matter. As far as unit experience is concerned, I don't think it's unrealistic for your men to see an enemy squad in action, and gauge how good it is. You know, "look at those idiots - they barely know which end of their rifles to point at us!", or "Geez, watch out - we've got a real bunch of commandos working round the flank!". You might say that experience could be misidentified, but for the purposes of a game, this would be too confusing. In the case of a spotter, yes, it definitely is unrealistic to know the calibre of his battery. But in technical terms, I can understand why it's there - the battery is his weapon, and you have information about everyone else's weapon. If you identify an SMG squad, you know what guns they use. I doubt having this info about a spotter is going to change the course of a battle, but I imagine it's something that could be removed. On the other hand, maybe it would be complicated - and in that case, I'd say it's no big deal. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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