Darwin Posted February 4, 2000 Share Posted February 4, 2000 Hey guys, the shogun demo was just released you can get it at http://www.totalwar.com in 10 Mb packets or if you have a fast modem you can go to http://www.totalwar.org and get it as one 95mb download. I recommend checking it out. Unfortunatly the demo does not allow for multiplayer but it's a good peek at whats coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted February 4, 2000 Share Posted February 4, 2000 It's pretty damned good. I had a hell of a time beating that first major battle. Seemed like my cavalry wasn't as fast and my troops not as strong. Did you have any luck in that one platoon on one platoon scenario, light samurai versus spearmen? I could never kill more than five or six spearmen with my light sams before being over run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 4, 2000 Share Posted February 4, 2000 Er... if we can keep this somehow related to CM I'll leave the thread open. Otherwise, it will go the way of a defeated Shogun warrior Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted February 4, 2000 Share Posted February 4, 2000 Marginally on topic, the shogun demo is a very good demonstration of why CM should NOT be real-time. Too much stuff to control all at once to really be able to manage it well. In the large battles there, you have 6 maneuver elements, which is simply too much for one person to control at one time, at least with one mouse as the primary control device. I really didn't like it because effective control was so hard, which wasn't helped by the annoying (and slow) way they had you change formations. And while the landscapes were great, the samurai were ugly. -John ps. the computer may have been going faster because it was running or charging. doubleclick to do the same with your guys. pps. Form your light samurai into a long line, so all of them can shoot. When the spearmen get close, double-click to run away, and they'll be unable to catch you. Once you figure they're really tired, turn around and fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted February 4, 2000 Author Share Posted February 4, 2000 I'm sorry, I was just thinking that it's being a wargame in a 3D envirionment would make for some good conversation/comparisons directly related to CM once people had looked at it even though it is set in a different style and era than CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thomas William Davie Posted February 4, 2000 Share Posted February 4, 2000 The demo? I tried the game about a month ago, and was rather po'd to find out it was a continous action game. Downloaded it, tried it for a few minutes and deleted it. Unless I'm clued out (which is possible), I did not see a way to issue orders when the game is paused, which makes it useless for me. Tom ------------------ email address: thodavie@videon.wave.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durruti Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 I know its a bit OT but I'm glad this game was mentioned here as I love the samurai period. For that reason I've persevered with the demo even though I find controlling the camera views and units in 'continous' time a bit of a steep learning curve. The camera control bears comparison with CM and I definitely found the latter far more intuitive and quick to learn. I find I want a 'tilt-up-and-down control' in Shogun but haven't found one. A pause control? Yeah, that would make it easier to command the units and I sympathise with those who hate RT games without it. Personally I have no problem with continous action as I see the learning curve of commanding units in a fast tactical action as analogous to improving unit control with the mouse. Its the sweat involved I certainly don't regard Shogun as extreme as 'C&C' in this respect. BTW did Shogun demo players know it contains a built in map editor? You can also edit the forces and create huge armies with troop types not included in the featured demos. Go to this excellent fan site to find out how: http://www.totalwar.org/links.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Darwin, actually it is a good thread if we can compare CM to what else is out there. We don't have time ourselves to play new stuff coming out, so it is good for us to see what you all think about it compared to CM. Just didn't want this to turn into a Shogun FAQ Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted February 5, 2000 Author Share Posted February 5, 2000 Cool Steve, understood Raider, light samurai vs spear scenario is easy once you get the hang of it. That scenario is designed to introduce you to the effects of terrain I believe. put your archers in a loose formation real quick at the crest of the hill (you actually move toward the spearmen at first) go to a side angle to see that you real close to the crest then just let fly with the arrows till the enemy is almost upon you (about 4/5 of the way up and double click (left mouse arrow) to charge and you should wipe them out with minimal casualties. Now that I've played it a few times it seems to simple. I love the samurai period also but in the beta it's just a matter of using terrain and matching units correctly. Once again it's a beta but seriously it's all about knowing the formula and I almost felt disapointed winning handily repeatedly after figuring it out. The challenge comes in doing it frantically in real time. CM's beta AI although yes I can win any of the released scenarios vs AI no problem didn't feel that way to me at all. Much more depth in the CM AI. Oh side note about the AI in shogun beta. I flanked some entrenched units and started raining arrows on them from a steep hilltop (cavalry and spear hidden behind the crest) and the AI left never flinched, allowed me to shoot at him from behind freely. I eventually got bored and charged my cavalry and spear to finish them off. Regarding camera views. in shogun they have a neat right click on mouse to point camera. The camera really reminds me of myth only giving me the larger perspective I couldn't get back then. I think it's smooth and pretty easy to get the hang of. CM's camera is also clean and is easier to get it to do just what you want it to within it's bounds (which are fully functional). If Shogun were to allow for large multiplayer games where you could work as a team it would be a beautiful thing. I believe thats part of their plan, unsure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiverse Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 i think this coversation is a good example of the fact that there is not much left to be said about cm until it is released.its a sad fact but the conversations on this game lately are making me fell rather jaded on the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfrikaKorps Posted February 7, 2000 Share Posted February 7, 2000 I hear a lot of good things about CM. But sadly a lot outside the demo. Yes i know a lot of beta testers loves to tease us a little bit. If i knew the time table of the release of CM i could enjoy it more to see the post of the beta testers. Because its really hard to eveluate a game on a simple pre release teaser demo. Frankly i tried the Shogun one, and was very impressed by the interface. The details of the interface make it look like a real professional look. Of course no AI ca beat the human brain easelly. Even games like chess, where you can predict move in advance have real problmes with certain humain brains. So imagine 1000 of troops with infinite choice of deploy and movement. Sure i will buy one of the 2 games. Depending on wich one will be out the first. The second one will have to wait until i get tired of the first one. Budget and time don't permit myself to buy everything on the market. If i only knew that CM could be out in a near future, i don't ask any precise date but a idea of time. 2 week, 1 month, 6 months, 1 year,.never...... And is it because of bug, or simply of added feature that the game is not out yet. for bugs i can understant well why not release it. Added feature can be downloaded in future time. Also i hope that not because of financial or legal problems. So i hope to see you all playing CM, or SHOGUN this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donan Posted February 7, 2000 Share Posted February 7, 2000 Durruti: the + and - (i.e. plus and minus) keys tilt the screen in S:TW. Not much tho'. I like the period quite a bit myself. However this is a great example of how much better CM's interface and pre-plan turns are so much better. Not that this interface is that bad, it's just CM is far easier (as mentioned). Still, this is a buy for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfrikaKorps Posted February 7, 2000 Share Posted February 7, 2000 There's a big difference in the 2 games strategic level. Real time is not veru suitable for ww2 kind of battles. since too much is going on at once. So thats why they gave a lot of responsabilities on junior officers giving them latitudes. They had to make a lot of decision on one order alone. Like covering the left flank againts tank penetration. So they were no told to place that man there and those here. In battles like napolenic or Shugun type, they had a big general conducting almost all operations. They also picked big open terrains so the flag signals could be given directly by the general himslef. Then you have the unit (regiment) officer who make sure his units obeyed and keep the ranks. He also made some judgement moves like forming square of firng. So the general was taking a lot of fast decisions on the flow of the battle. If the general died during a battle it almost always singified the lost of the battle. or even the war. In WW2 we could have lost many generals with not even a glitch in all the operations. (sure having lost Monty would have even help) hehe. So i love the real time action of Shogun. The game must be played like a flowing tactic. no time to calculate angle and count numbers against numbers. You have to to move your troops in actions and reactions of every move of the ennemy. In BM that sure not appropriate since we have to think like all the junior offivers at the same time. That make people go crazy ( me included ) In Close Combat, how many times i saw some of my troops already death when i wanted to see how they were doing after 1 min of play. No even seeing who the hell killed them. The simultanous play of CM is a nice idea, since you have time to think, then the actions is not on the advantage of one of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durruti Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Donan, thanks yes I found the tilt control as well in the meantime (guess it pays to read the instructions closely ) But you're right, its pretty useless; about 30 degrees to the horizontal? I want to pan towards a top down view like CM...Still I can forgive such things in an innovative game like Shogun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfrikaKorps Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Think that not a general in those time had the luxury to fly a planes to see it top down view. To move around is like seeing what your troops can see, nothing more. So i think its more realistic to have limited views. I played Fighting Steel recently and i was completly repulsed by all the views you can have. You can almost see what the ennemy cooks are making in the galleys. I remember the game Pacific 1942. We had only views from the boats. No fency 3D unrealistics views on the ennemies. In that game the real fog of war was on. You could fire at your onw boats. That realistic. And you had to know the profile of the ships to identify them. I guess those feature were made for the newbies or very Age Of empires kind of players. It sure looks good to have 3D views everywhere, but not a commanding officers had that lucky chance in battle. Even today!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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