Guest scurlock Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 I was checking out the vehicle list and noticed the PZ III F listed. Is that a typo? The K Model was around in 44, as was the N model. I don't know about any others. I was under the impression, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that with the exception of the command vehicles such as the K, they were upguned to N specs, or converted to STuGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 Basically the III F was almost indistiguishable from the III E. It´s production also began in 1939, the early vehicles mounted a 3,7cm gun and twin machine guns behind an internal mantlet. However, on this modell new ventilation ducts for the track brakes had been installed, and the covers for these were visible on the glacis plate. By now the wisdom of the original proposal to fit a 5cm main armament had become apparent, and later vehicles in the series were fitted with the L/42 5cm gun in conjunction with a single co-ax mg, the mounting being protected by an external mantlet. This gun was also fitted retrospectively to the Ausf.E. For the time frame of CM, this tank is absolutely outdated, however as it was in reality, in June 1944 some were in service with 116th Panzer Division in Normandy. One of them can be visited at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox. Helge ============== Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scurlock Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 Originally posted by DesertFox: For the time frame of CM, this tank is absolutely outdated, however as it was in reality, in June 1944 some were in service with 116th Panzer Division in Normandy. One of them can be visited at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox. Helge ============== Your right, found a reference in Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII. I still wonder though if that wasn't a typo. Any "F"s still in service should have been modified during the overhaul process to meet the combat specs of later variants. Also, I would expect more late version PZ IIIs to be running around Normandy than the old "F" version. The 27 SS Panzer was equiped with PZ IIIs but I have no clue what variants. Got any more info on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 Regarding this specific III F there isn´t much known. Regarding Pz III in Normandy in general has to be said that 116th Panzer Division had 6 Pz III, which where used in the Regimental Staff Co (3 Pz III) of Panzerregiment 16 and in the Staff of its II. Abteilung (3 PzIII). AFAIK these 6 were the only PzIIIs which saw service in Normandy (basing on Tom Jentz and some other sources) So whenever you meet more than 3 Pz III, there is a high likelyhood that it´s ahistorical But these weren´t the only outdated german tanks in Normandy. E.g. Panzerregiment 22 (21. Panzerdivision) had some "ancient" Pz IV B and C, some captured Somuas and modified Hotchkiss and Lorraines and of course there was also the Panzerersatz und Ausbildungsabteilung 100 with its Hotchkiss, Somuas and Renaults and there was the Panzerabteilung 206 with captured french stuff. Helge ============== Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 That list is very outdated For the rarity reasons Helge mentioned, we dropped the Pz III from our list. Maybe later it will come back, but not for 1.0. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 I liked the Panzer III so I checked, and sure enough most of them were gone by June 1944. Here is a quote from http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz8.htm : "By late 1944, only 79 Panzer IIIs were in service with frontline units on the Eastern Front. Number of PzKpfw IIIs remained in service until the end of the war in places like Norway and Holland." A number of Panzer IIIs were used on the Eastern front, maybe we will see them in CM2. There is a flammpanzer version, that could prove interesting. I am surprised that the Panzer IIL made it into CMBO, I will search for that to see why it outlived the Panzer III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 I found it, there were 145 in still in service in Normandy as of March 45. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz1.htm#panzer2 Probably everyone knew that except me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Originally posted by patboivin: A number of Panzer IIIs were used on the Eastern front, maybe we will see them in CM2. There is a flammpanzer version, that could prove interesting. I am surprised that the Panzer IIL made it into CMBO, I will search for that to see why it outlived the Panzer III. Well of course we'll see the PzIII in CM2. Remember CM2 will cover 1941-1945 the PzIIL, was a special version of the PzII that was still used late in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 PzIIIs in Normandy in 45? how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple4Ever Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 LOL, I think what Pat means is that there were some in service during the Normandy Battles and even in 1945 (145 as of March). ------------------ "The mass of the [Red] army stationed in Western Russia is to be destroyed in bold operations involving deep penetrations by armored spearheads, and the withdrawal of elements capable of combat into the extensive Russian land spaces is to be prevented. By means of rapid pursuit a line is then to be reached from beyond which the Russian air force will no longer be capable of attacking the German home territories." - - - Directive 21 "Fall Barbarossa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Too bad, if PzIIIF is included, it makes good for The Desert Mod. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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