Berlichtingen Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 Joe Shaw <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure the Grognards will ) but I believe the original use of the term Grognard was by Napoleon and was referring to the original Old Guard, his Imperial Guard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Correct. More specifically, the Grenadiers of the Old Guard. Spook, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I left out "miniature grognards" as an added category who would insist that only miniatures games, to this day, can truly recreate "wargames."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We insist that, because its true Board gamers can't clain true Grogness because they are to lazy to paint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 Indeed, as my 15mm version (took me over a year to paint a single brigade!) of the King's German Legion would attest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 16, 2000 Author Share Posted May 16, 2000 von Lucke, Ah, I know the feeling well i have enough Russians painted to do the battle of Austerlitz and about 2/3 the French force. Never could look at those pieces of cardboard and see battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 Ah yes, those were the days weren't they? I was into 25mm myself, and the look of all those lovely troops on the carefully constructed terrain ... {sigh} ... of course it took THREE HOURS to set the damn thing up I remember reading a "suggestion" by some weird guy who thought that to simulate the real feeling of warfare, whenever you destroyed an enemy stand you should be able to hammer it to bits ... with a real hammer. Joe ------------------ "Son," says I to him, "you're a Dragon. And a Dragon ACTS like a Dragon or he doesn't act at all." Smrgol, Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 > Board gamers can't clain true Grogness > because they are to lazy to paint I like this one! On a side note: what is the punishment in 'Your neck of the woods' for players that field unpainted minis? Here in Texas it is either hangin' or we tar and feather them (depends on the county) ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 My wife calls the years I was painting and playing 15mm ACW miniatures the "Insane Years" I set up what can only be called an assembly line paint shop in our spare bedroom and most of the basement with the 'battle field' oh they looked great.... eventually my paintshop was turned into a nursery and once again reality raised it's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 That MIGHT be a bit harsh if you would rather see the miniatures hobby perpetuate, Scott. Up further north, we opt for two forms of punishment: 1) Make those who bring unpainted figures buy all of the beer & chips, or 2) knock down down the morale ratings of the unpainted figures by three or four levels. So you also painted the KGL, von Lucke? What figures did you use? I used Minifigs when I did the KGL in the 1970's, but now prefer Old Glory or Battle Honors. I was definitely a miniatures grog in my younger days. And I've got several painting awards from Historicon to attest to it. But....sigh.....not as much mini games recently. I soon hope to get painting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 One thing is for sure, there is NO substitute for the tactile look and feel of a fine miniatures battle or diorama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 Spook: Heritage Napoleonettes they were (and still are) --- tho I did use Minifigs for the 12lbr's (they just looked better). Since I was the Coalition's token "foreign" organization, I always ended up paired off against our group's other token French "foreign" unit, the Vistula Legion. Germans vs Poles --- what a suprise, eh? [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 05-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 16, 2000 Share Posted May 16, 2000 Hmmm. Sounds like the setting of your miniatures battles was in Spain to get that kind of matchup. Yep, I remember the Heritage Napoleonettes series, and painted up a Polish regiment from that set. (Not the Vistula Legion, just a line regiment.) I'm most sentimental about my Old Glory ACW 15mm troops, though. Not as pretty as the Naps, but lots more "character." The Georgia brigade I have (Benning's) has such a RAGAMUFFIN look so as to drive any computer graphics specialist insane to recreate it in an ACW game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 17, 2000 Author Share Posted May 17, 2000 The majority of my French and Russians are Heritage Napoleonettes. I intend to replace all the artillery with Old Glory (Napoleonettes have such small gun castings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Oh, and in the Better-Late-Than-Never category: Our punishment for the guy who showed up with un-painted troops was to make him play as the Austrians! Heh! Nobody ever wanted to be the Austrians in our group... Battle placement was just a matter of who showed up with what (tho I, personally, prefered Spain --- since Lord Wellington had called the 1st KGL Hussars the "best light cavalry in the peninsula"). Damn, 18 hour games where you only managed to get in seven or eight turns... That was dedication! Hey, we're not getting too OT here, dya think? [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 05-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Off-topic? No way. This thread was set up for miniaturists. Fionn's got a separate OT thread asking how to use airbrushes, and I think BTS & the rest of us are all fine with that too. One of the reasons Wellington liked the KGL cavalry was that unlike the standard British cavalry, the KGL troopers were more disciplined and could be better "reigned in" and recovered than British cav regiments that charged off and scattered after the first charge. British cavalry was plenty brave, but even at Waterloo, their skill at "recall" was limited. Hey, if a guy shows up with unpainted figures, just hand him a can of white spray paint and he'll be ready to use the figures as Austrian infantry! Myself, I actually didn't mind playing the Austrians so much. Sure, most of their leaders were lousy, but the infantry COULD be solid at times, the cavalry & light jagers were quite effective, and their artillery was actually pretty good. Only French & British gunners were better on average. Now to switch gears a bit: What do all of you miniaturists prefer as rules sets for either Napoleonics or ACW? I never quite found the ideal set for either period in my case. I'm also a bit of a "rules grognard"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 17, 2000 Author Share Posted May 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now to switch gears a bit: What do all of you miniaturists prefer as rules sets for either Napoleonics or ACW? I never quite found the ideal set for either period in my case. I'm also a bit of a "rules grognard".......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm... good question. For ACW, the group I game with uses a set developed within the group. I haven't been all that impressed with any of the commercial sets. For Napoleonics, I've tried most of them. Used to play mostly Empire (I really hate those rules). I'm currently developing my own, but for a commercial set, I recommend Valmy to Waterloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Ah yes. I've seen that rules set at Historicon (last time I went was '97) but its system of look-up charts seemed intimidating to my old eyes. But pretty much anyone who played that rules set seemed to like it at that convention. I liked the "Carnage & Glory" computer-assisted miniatures rules, but this was best done from a laptop, and it was very difficult to use for bigger battles. (The computer operator had to resolve & spit out all of the results for all combats.) Napoleon's Battles was big for a while, but I really hate that rules set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 17, 2000 Author Share Posted May 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I liked the "Carnage & Glory" computer-assisted miniatures rules, but this was best done from a laptop, and it was very difficult to use for bigger battles. (The computer operator had to resolve & spit out all of the results for all combats.) Napoleon's Battles was big for a while, but I really hate that rules set.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL... our group tried Carnage and Glory with a big battle. We renamed it Carnage and Boring Since then, we us it for much smaller battles. It works well for AWI and small ACW actions. I completely agree with your feelings toward Napoleon's Battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 LOL! The mark of the true Grognard! "Everybody else's rule sets sucked, so we wrote our own". Yup, same here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 18, 2000 Author Share Posted May 18, 2000 von Lucke, Check this out: http://www.owc.net/~dbrown/ It is far from finished, but here's the "beta" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 "Shadow of the Eagles", eh? Looks interesting... Definitely agree with the Intro: The French weren't supermen, and the Brits firepower is always over-rated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 20, 2000 Author Share Posted May 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Definitely agree with the Intro: The French weren't supermen, and the Brits firepower is always over-rated...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What I hope to eventually achieve is a model in which the flexability of command is the major variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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