The DesertFox Posted September 21, 2000 Share Posted September 21, 2000 OK here we go folks, I finally managed to get the 222 pics scanned. This one has been made after the german reoccupation of Villers-Bocage on 13th June 44 and shows 2 SS guys [most propably from schwere 101 Panzerabteilung´s staff company; on the left in front of the store you clearly see that this is a Tiger of 2nd Company sSS101 which is facing in the opposite direction as the Tiger [112] besides the PzIV [PanzerLehr] in the background. This pic can be found in Agte´s book. This shot is out of Wolfgang Schneiders "Tiger in Combat II". The text says : "This interesting shot shows Wittmann´s disabled Tiger "222" on the left. Faintly visible in the background is Tiger "112" and the other wreck, the burnt-out Panzer IV of Panzerregiment 130. This shot shows the same as shot No1, but after the bombing. Again this pic is out of Agte´s book. This shot of course isn´t out of any book Sorry, couldn´t resist, but if you want to try out some new Tiger MODS, hop to my site and feel free to download them. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/CombatMission/Combatmission.htm Enjoy! Cheers Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 21, 2000 Author Share Posted September 21, 2000 Excellent photos!!! In the last photo, there's a Tiger next to the MkIV in the backround. I've seen another shot of it. The Tiger's turret is turned down one of the side streets. I wish I had that Panzer book because it showed another Tiger further down the hill (where I took my first picture above) Which Tiger was that? Your pictures really show how much the bombing damaged the town! But, how would Wittmann's tank be facing the other way? He was going down the hill towards the the entrance of the town to duke it out with the tanks down there, when he got nailed from one in ambush. The tank moved a bit down the road before it stopped. I could be wrong here, but that's how I read it..... JoePrivate: Any way you can scan that picture of the Tiger up against the building???? -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" [This message has been edited by Teamski (edited 09-21-2000).] [This message has been edited by Teamski (edited 09-21-2000).] [This message has been edited by Teamski (edited 09-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrido Posted September 21, 2000 Share Posted September 21, 2000 DesertFox - The book you mentioned is sold out. I called the shop and they said that it is unavailable? Do you have any other sources for this book? Patrick Agte´s book at[http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/products.htm] Thanks Sir! Horrido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DesertFox Posted September 21, 2000 Share Posted September 21, 2000 Teamski, Yep 1 metre besides that Tiger [112] there is a knocked out PzIV of PzRgt 130 (Panzerlehr] and down the road perhaps 100m there is another Tiger and THAT TIGER is the 121 which is shown in your first pic. Ahhh saw you edited your post and added a question Well, easy. Wittmann drove into the town first an KOed various tanks when he came to Hotel Bras d´OR he KOed an AOP Sherman. He drove on until he reached the exit of VB at Place Jeanne D´Arc. There he faced several tanks and decided to turn around and drive back the same road he came from. At the store Huet-Godefroy he got a PAK hit which rendered his tank immobile. That´s the story in rough, and that´s why Wittmann´s Tiger is facing in another direction as all other Tigers which were KOed in VB. All other Tigers including the PzIV (PanzerLehr) were of 1st Company and participated in the attack of 1st Company which ended with 5 lost Tigers in VB and at least 2 lost PzIV in the town. Horrido, Sorry but AFAIK Fedorowicz is the only one who sells the english translation. If it´s sold out you only can hope for a reprint or look at Z-Shops at Amazon.com or Amazon.de, perhaps you will find a copy. Good luck. Cheers Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891 [This message has been edited by The DesertFox (edited 09-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrido Posted September 21, 2000 Share Posted September 21, 2000 DesertFox - Thanks, I'll call them back and check on the reprint. Thanks for the great posts. So often these type of posts turn in to flamewars, it is great to follow a well thought-out and respectfull debate of the actual facts. Horrido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DesertFox Posted September 21, 2000 Share Posted September 21, 2000 I guess this might make the location of the knocked out Tigers and PzIV clearer. Source: Patrick Agte: "Michael Wittmann und die Tiger der Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" ISBN 3-920-72218-3, Deutsche Verlagsgesellschaft Rosenheim, 1994 Cheers Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Although this topic pops up now and again this thread has been a really great example. I am especially pleased that Helge has related the abortive attack of later that day since it balances the ledger somewhat. Though always thought 4Tigers and 1 PzIV were lost in that attack. They were ambushed in the town by 1Firefly, 3 Cromwells from B squadron(4CLY?) and a 6pdr AT gun. The British had to withdraw that evening because they didn't have enough infantry to hold the town so they pulled out and blasted the living daylights out of the place. Another example of their armoured divisions not having enough infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DesertFox Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...since it balances the ledger somewhat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Simon, Yes that´s true. The combined attack of 1st Company sSS101 and the PanzerLehr tanks is an outstanding example what you never ever should do with tanks. Drive into towns or woods, because tanks are dead meat there. 1st Company paid a heavy toll that day, it was their first day in combat on the western front, and they lost 30% of their equipment not to mention the loss in experienced tankcommanders and crews. Another example that Waffen SS Shock attack tactics didn´t pay off on the western front as they did on the eastern front. Another good example of an utter failure of these Shock attack tactics is the failure of 12th SS Panzerregiment under Max Wuensche at Bretteville l'Orgueuilleuse, and the attack of 12th SS Panzerregiment under Arnold Juergensen at Rocherath-Krinkelt but that´s another story Cheers Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Horrido , in regards to the Micheal Wittman book , it is not going to be reprinted for several years....hence me being the lucky B@@@@@@ in getting the second but last of them from JJ F Publishing ....... but you might try your luck with Barbarossa Books ph.no 00-44-1621-810810 ( UK ).....as far as i know he has a couple of copies left. Happy Hunting ------------------ Once an Ubercabbage Always an Ubercabbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 22, 2000 Author Share Posted September 22, 2000 Great map! Thanks....... The losses that day for the Germans came down to one thing: Greed. Wittmann, I believe, is personally responsible for thoses losses. If he didn't underestimate the British, he wouldn't of lost his and the other tanks. I know that he kicked some a$$ before and took the British by surprise when they were brewing tea (pretty stupid considering they didn't have a flank to speak of). But being so experienced, he should of thought better than to believe that the British wouldn't of had a reaction within the time he went and got the other tanks. He definately wasn't thinking here. The British salvaged a total loss by being clever and setting up the ambush facing the main road. So, Wittmann isn't quite the hero here, in my opinion. Arrogance gets you nothing in the end..... The shock tactics DID work, but it only worked once. Once bitten, twice shy....... -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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