Guest Pham Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Do you guy(Steve & Charles) want to be informed when people spot pirated copies of the game on the web or usenet(or anywhere else for that matter)? And, if so, should it be by email or post here? Keep in mind that if it's posted here, then anyone will have the link until the site gets shut down or removes the game. I haven't seen the game anywhere *yet*, but I recall someone mentioned a fair while ago that a copy of the beta was posted somewhere and you seemed none too pleased about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 We're hoping piracy won't be a big issue, but if you do spot illegal pirate copies out on the net, please inform us by email: feedback@bigtimesoftware.com. Thanks. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Great, let's turn into East Germany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captitalistdoginchina Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 You guys better not come near china, the chinese copy everything! I doubt if they will copy CM though, usually only games like quake and so on. The volume sellers. CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Heh I've seen Copys of Talonsoft games being sold 30m from a store selling legal copy's in the big dept stores in Jakarta. They will burn anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Umm perhaps I am a little behind on my Geopolitical Landscape but I was under the impression that East and West Germany were united a few years back? And since when is reporting internationaly recoginzed illegal behavior grounds to comparisons to a former Communist state? Madmatt... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Both now proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pham Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 The reason I asked is because CM went gold, and just recently the ISO of HPS's Panzer Campaigns 2: Normandy '44 was posted to Usenet shortly before it was avaliable from the website. I've got no great problem with piracy when the products come from the Talonsoft, Origin, Microsoft, or a few other places because these companies are well known for screwing me out of money with buggy programs and/or copy protection that won't allow CD's to be read by my new drive. However, pirating from smaller companies that produce decent products seems kind of like stealing from someones grandmother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Madmatt, do you really want to live in a society where everyone is spying on everyone else. I'm not pro-piracy, but i'd rather see starving programmers than a nation of informers and spies. ------------------ "Grab your weapons, get up and fight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G2A: do you really want to live in a society where everyone is spying on everyone else<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Personally, I'd like to live in a society where stolen property is reported to its rightful owner. I think we can do that without reverting to Stalinism, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Just to contribute uselessly to this topic... I highly doubt that BTS will be able to track down INDIVIDUALS who have a pirated copy of CM, but a website/USENET group can be LEGALLY forced to take down their posting of the copy. I don't think anyone here wants to create an Orwellian state, but these are criminal acts that are being perpetrated by these pirates. And pirating ANYONE'S software is just not good. Even if you hate the big companies, you make the "intellectual property" marketplace that much harder for the little guy by pirating. Sure some programs end up riddled with bugs and the developer doesn't support them as they should. Hopefully such developers experience karma at some point in their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Mark IV, I'd like to live in a society where crimes are investigated by the police, rather than companies and vigilantes. If it's OK for BTS to become a private law enforcement agency, why don't we just let Bill Gates run the army and collect taxes? Schrullenhaft, are you saying that we should just ignore fascist tendencies and rely on imaginary supernatural forces to fix things when we're dead? ------------------ "Grab your weapons, get up and fight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pham Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 I'm not saying that it shouldn't be illegal to pirate from larger, bloated, buggy release making, customer screwing companies, just that it isn't frowned upon by me. Hell, if any of you ever get busted for mass pirating products from Talonsoft or Origin, let me know and I'll change my state of residency just to try to get on your jury. "Yeah, ok, he made $200,000 selling pirated copies of that game, but hell, he said he was holding them for a friend and, frankly, I believe him. Anyways, he looks like he's really, really sorry, what with the puppy dog eyes, and the pouting lips and all. Aw, look, he looks like a little beagle when he does that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zulu1 Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Originally posted by GA2 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by G2A: do you really want to live in a society where everyone is spying on everyone else -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So it looks like you want to obey some laws and not others based on your likes and dislikes. Hmmmm. Germany and other countries did the same in WW2. Aw hell, they only took the Jews. Who cares! Oh no, they're coming for me now, by golly, I'd better do something. PIRACY is against the law! If I see someone pirating CM, I'm for damn sure going to report it because if Steve and Charles get ripped off, we may not see CM2. Any you're wrong too Pham. Just because its Microsoft or whoever, that doesn't make piracy ok. The laws apply equally to all, not selectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Zulu1, I guess you wouldn't mind an oppressive regime as long as they made laws to justify the oppression. Opposing Stalin was illegal. Does that mean it was right to kill dissidents? If companies, like BTS, start enforcing laws, sooner or later, someone *will* be coming for *you*. Charles' comment in this thread may seem innocent, but it encourages some very dangerous behaviour, "What are my neighbours doing, and who can I tell?". ------------------ "Grab your weapons, get up and fight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G2A: Mark IV, I'd like to live in a society where crimes are investigated by the police, rather than companies and vigilantes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Without a complaint filed there is no crime to investigate. What you seem to be asking for is an omnescient police force that investigates behavior without the mandate of the populace. Hmmm.. Interesting idea, but its been tried before and the Nazi's lost. Piracy is against the law both here and through out the international community. If you think it should not be then fight to get it legalized but until that happens I have a right to report (or not to) such activities to the authorities that are in a position to properly attend to them. Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Both now proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 G2A - You seem to be under the impression that BTS will come to your house, take away your pirated copy of CM and spank you. BTS will not become an "enforcement" agency. They will utilize the law as it is written/interpreted and enforced by agencies given the power to do so (in the US and other countries). Given the nature and size of crimes it will be almost fruitless to pursue individuals who own a pirated copy of CM. On the other hand stopping people who are distributing it via hard copies or the internet is very much worth their time. I see nothing fascist about allowing BTS to pursue people who are stealing from them. I highly doubt that they would report an individual that was using CM without a license. Persuasion of one sort or another would probably be more effective. I can see it now... troops in black w/ body armor, helmets and MP5s and a big fat "BTS" logo on their back. My "karma" statement was meant in terms of a company getting bad sales of future products because customers have learned of their bad products and support. I forget what the latin term is for "consumer beware". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Caveat Emptor Madmatt p.s. Oh geez? Did I say that?!? Now you guys are going to start thinking I am College eductated or something... Errr Bitus Moi! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Both now proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 05-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pham Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 G2A, I've got to question your logic here. By your reasoning a crime victim or a witness has no right to report the crime or it's a totalitarian state. So, if someone robs you of your wallet and no law enforcement officer happens to see it, you're out of luck. Nobody suggested that Steve and Charles *enforce* the law. Just that they should have the chance to report the problem or request that the site cease and disist. There is a big difference. BTW, Microsoft and most other large software companies often go after pirate sites with thier lawyers. They demand that the site take down warez versions of thier products or face the music. In this case the music could be either a lawsuit, or a request of the appropriate law enforcement agency to look in to the matter. At any rate, if BTS demands that the site take down the copy, it's thier right and is backed by the current laws. The problem with small operations like BTS is that they don't have the resources avaliable to form a department just to handle copyright infringments and seek out and remove pirated copies of the game. All I was doing was asking them if they wanted to be notified by email or on the board, if they even wanted to be notified by all. There's a world of difference between my offering to inform them of the location of pirated versions of CM, and someone(the government, BTS, whoever) legally compelling me to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G2A: I'd like to live in a society where crimes are investigated by the police, rather than companies and vigilantes. If it's OK for BTS to become a private law enforcement agency...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The issue, quite simply, was whether or not to notify BTS if their software turned up for sale in a pirated form. Period. No mention of firing up the Weasel and staging a vigilante raid. No black helicopters. No periscopes peering into your bedroom. Just "hey, pyritwarez has your game for free". There are procedures for this sort of thing. If your bike was missing and I saw it on another block, the neighborly thing to do would be to tell you. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 The whole idea of copying software dosnt bother me that much, All the people ive seen at any lan party have some copy\priate version of the games we play, Im not talking small bunch of kids either. (largest lan party was 250+/- people) many had burners and software that made images. I personaly feel that you shoudnt have to pay for something that you feel is crap. you shouldnt have to go though the whole hassle of return policys and dumb sales reps. downloadable demos might convay the wrong immage of gameplay, or isnt what the demo looked\acted like. All the games ive got a copy of that ive liked or played to much of i have purchaced a copy of to promote these companys, and keep them in buiness to make good games. And im not talking 1 or 2 copys, My game "Legal" collection is in the 1000s at least.(you put a $ amount on that) Steve and Charles have made great game, the game play and enviroment that they emurse the players in is a gaming first, and shows thought and orginal consept. Not alot of the Big guys do that anymore (Q3). From my point of view they have earned my money back in the alpha days, and its always getting better. Ill be doing my part to inform steve and charles about any sightings on the "Warez" groups\sites to help preserve the game. For intrest in this subject i would sudgest doing a search for this, You will find a whole disscution on this im shure. Thanks ps. BTS PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schrullenhaft: I forget what the latin term is for "consumer beware".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Caveat emptor. Economists love it... G2A, I really don't see what your problem is. I read the thread and noone here suggested that BTS was going to turn into Pinkerton. There was a suggestion made whether it would have a point to report piracy to them, and I (and almost everybody else here) automatically (and rightly, I am sure) assumes that BTS will then take it to the relevant authorities as the party harmed by the act. I really don't get what is so upsetting/fascist/stalinist about that. Comparing that to what went on in Eastern Germany is demeaning the people who suffered through fifty years of that regime - some of my relatives included. Those are laws, and they should be kept. Ever wondered why democracies do so much better in the long run than dictatorships? It is because of the rule of law - take it away and we are back to the jungle. Have a look at Douglass C. North "Institutions, Institutional Change and Economic Performance", published by the Cambridge University Press in 1991. Now, can we get back to talking about the particularities of how CM pirates are going to be punished? I say spanking is not enough. Ps. It is amazing what you can learn from a book. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blacksilver Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G2A: If companies, like BTS, start enforcing laws, sooner or later, someone *will* be coming for *you*.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That statement is absurd. What do you think civil litigation is? It's private parties enforcing their rights under the law. The copyright laws in particular are designed to encourage private rather than public enforcement -- that's why private litigants can be awarded punitive damages and attorneys' fees if an infringement is found by a court to be "willful." I'm sure you get paid for spending your day at work. I'm sure you'd let your friends know if somebody was ripping them off. Musicians, writers, filmmakers, and yes, even programmers -- most of whom are neither Time Warner nor Microsoft, but who scratch to get by -- deserve to get paid, too. Aggressive private enforcement is the only way to make that happen. (BTW, do your really want the POLICE doing that? Talk about an open invitation to fascism!) ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>On May 8 Nazi Germany surrendered unconditionally. We were told this momentious news . . . "So what" was typical of the remarks I heard around me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --Pfc. Eugene Sledge, K/3/5, Okinawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 If you see a crime being committed, tell the *police*. BTS is not one of the "authorities that are in a position to properly attend to them". If, by posting warez, someone is violating an agreement with an ISP, tell the ISP. Of course BTS have the right to report piracy of Combat Mission. I'm saying that they shouldn't ask their customers to look for pirates and report back to them. Not for legal reasons, but because of the effects to society. Mark IV, if you told me about my stolen bike, it would still be illegal for me to take it back. Would you turn me in if I did? ------------------ "Grab your weapons, get up and fight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pham Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Ah, I see the sticking point here now. True, you could report the matter to the police, or to the persons ISP, but why? I mean, it's BTS's game not mine. If they want to deal with the pirate site, then let them. I've got better things to do than activly attempt to police the internet, as does BTS. However, just giving them a heads-up on where you happen to see something while digging through the muck that lies beneath the surface of the internet is about the extent of how involved I want to be. All that was offered was information if I happen upon it, not active policing/enforcement. Hopefully the Charles' statement "We're hoping piracy won't be a big issue" will prove to be true and all this will be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Pham, I wasn't really criticizing your question, but Charles' response, which was asking for active policing by customers. And if you don't want to police the internet, why tell BTS anything. Many people on this forum seem very confused about the Company-Customer relationship. "Steve and Charles" aren't doing this as a personal favor to any "community". They're doing it because they want your money. Nothing wrong with that, but all the ass-kissing and "loyalty" is just so pathetic. Bye. ------------------ "Grab your weapons, get up and fight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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