Noncom Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Hello all, First off I just want to comment that I am a "new" fan of CM. I just received my FULL version last Friday. I have been, however, totally blown away by this game. BTS has really made a gem of a game! The PC game mags *should* all pick this as the "Wargame of the Year." I also have become a very big fan of this forum. This board seems to be a fantastic community and a wealth of information. I have also been *amazed* to see so many helpfull and quick responses from the BTS guys (and others...). Many of you are so willing to take time out to help (or design scenerios, new paint jobs for tanks, Mod-packs, etc.) despite the obvious time and effort. Combat Mission itself, in addition to be the most amazing game I've played this year, has enticed me buy a few more books on WWII and has increased my overall awareness of the period by tenfold. (I'm still WAY behind the curve compared to some of you 'ole grognards...but I'm on my way.) In any case, all this has forced me to examine one issue in particular. Why do people wargame? I consider it an obvious point that war always carries a horrible cost in lives and property. In some sense, both sides always lose "something" in a war. That being said, why then do we "play" at war? Is it God given male (or male/female, for all the PC people out there) aggresiveness? Tribute to the bravery of the fallen men of the past? Mental excercise? (tactics and strategy) A way to explore our common roots in history? Why do we wargame? I, of course, have drawn my own conclusions from this little question. Now, I'm interested to "hear" what you all think... Thanks and good gaming to you all! Noncom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I do it to annoy my wife Seriously, I have aways been facinated by stories told of battles gone by. I feel as a society at large we revere our veterans in appreciation for the sacrifices they have made to ensure a good and free life for us. Playing wargames allows us to fantasize that we are those vets, garnering a little of that admiration for ourselves by proxy. Of course, it could just be male (how many female wargamers do you know) agressiveness and bloodlust being expressed in a socially permissible way! No SS hamstertruppen were harmed in the writing of this post. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noncom: I consider it an obvious point that war always carries a horrible cost in lives and property. In some sense, both sides always lose "something" in a war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree fully, but have found that there's some risk of being perceived as a "war monger" when stating that you're a wargamer. On more than one occasion, I've gotten the reply "Oh, so you must really be happy when there's a war going on." Actually, I think that wargamers generally have a better appreciation of the horrible costs of war than most. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mental excercise? (tactics and strategy) A way to explore our common roots in history? Why do we wargame? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For me, both to learn more about what past wars were "really" like (books are good, but actually dealing with some of the real issues is better) and as an enjoyable mental exercise. [This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brethon Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 This is my first wargame...but I think I can guess. I've always been fascinated by wargames (but always turned off by their huge scale and turn-base system), for me, the draw was dealing with stuff like men who would do what you told them if you treated them poorly, and the excercise for your brain while plotting all those tactics....It's true that wars are horrendous. When you think about it, Saving Private ryan was gory, yes, but I don't belive it showed all of what could/would happen in war. I mean, it showed a guy geting hit with 30mm, but he lost his head and limbs. had SPR director descided he had been hit in midsection, it would have been a lot more gory. When the guy held his 'sticky' for too long, he blew, but there was almost no blood, just mainly smoke. Even gory movies like that shrowed the true atrocities of war. And great war movies that showed the tactics like 'A Bridge too Far', only showed that part, almsot so blood in that movie. I'm sorry I've gone off in a rant like this. it's just that seriously, when i was little, i thought war was cool...i really did...now that i'm older i see why it isnt. wargames only provide the strategy, the closest they coem to associating with the men is the morale...I'm thinking the next step for wargaming will be one of two things. 1)make them gory as heck...i don't really think this is a good option though for obvious reasons. teh other and more likely I think is 2)associate more with the men. for example, a guy gets killed by an enemy rifle squad. his budy breaks and runs firing at the enemy, while he may do some damage he will most likely loose his life. Showing what happend to men in war is what i think the next step should be. ------------------ The worst part of any conflict is peacekeeping, it is the time when only one side may fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 For me, it's just to experience a more "interactive" look at history. I love to read about and discuss military tactics and issues, and this way I get all of that without having to actually join the military myself! (much to the disappointment of the local Marine Corps recruiter who called the other night...since when did the Corps get involved in telemarketing?) -Andrew PS: No disrespect was meant for any vets or current military types. God bless ya. It just isn't for me. ------------------ Throw me a frickin' smiley people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I grew up reading "Warlord" and "Battle" and believed that war was very noble and adventurous. Among the more ludicrous offerings was a commando who was so brave that he was the only man in his unit to make night drops with a white parachute. Yeah, right. I think my first clue to the contrary was either a book by Sven Hassel (I know, I know; I was young*) or, most likely, a series in "Battle" comic called "Charley's War" which recounted the experiences of a young British private during the Battle of the Somme. It was the first story I'd ever read that made me think that a battle wasn't really an event that I'd like to attend. One sequence in particular sticks in my mind: Charley is carrying a small sack and is challenged by an officer who suspects that the sack contains stolen supplies. Looking at the officer but not really seeig him, Charley explains that the bag contains the remains of his best friend, who has just been killed by a shell. The officer apologises and tells Charley that his friend must have been very brave. Not really, says Charley, he was scared stiff most of the time. Somehow this had a ring of truth about it, and subsequent readings and viewings showed the comic book/Hollywood heroic nonsense for what it was. But I found that this made the whole subject more interesting, not less. A bit like discovering that battle of Britain pilots flew their missions, not with tally-ho derring-do, but teetering on the edge of nervous breakdown. I don't think it's necessary to defend an interest in military history. After all, military events have generally had the greatest impact on world events. This combined with the fact that war is the most dangerous, unpredictable and fast-moving of human enterprises, makes it for me a rivetting subject. In any case, lots of people are fascinated by crime stories and serial killers; it doesn't follow that they think murder is a good thing. As to why we wargame, well we're always reading judgements on the performances of past commanders, and it begs the question of whether we could have done any better. War, after all, is an art in that it can be done well or done badly depending on the soldiers' skill and judgement, a factor often overlooked by those who see military matters in Ramboesque terms. It's also, as someone else has pointed out, an interactive history lesson, provided that the materials are adequate (and with CM the materials are without compare!), not to mention a chance to match your wits against your fellow man and see who emerges victorious. As a chess player, I can relate to that aspect too. Sorry for the length, but I've never really ahd to articulate that before, so it's been a bit cathartic *(Sven Hassel's books have long since disappeared off my shelves, but I remember certain sections with fondness for their sheer comedy. In particular, the defrauding of a supply depot by soldiers posing as Gestapo agents posing as soldiers; another affair involving a rigged boxing match; and a box of laxative tea that finds its way to the high command.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I think the "interactive history" bill fits me. I have played wargames since I was eight, I am 43 now. Yet, I can't stand playing other types of games, like Monopoly or card games, or anything like that. My daughter wanted me to play Monopoly (the kid's version!)the other day, and I did enough squirming for ten kids. I think she let me win, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Philosophy of Survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Let me guess... he's been assimilated right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Callmeyer Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 No-Fix We just do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mi_Go Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 why do I war game? 1 watching a plan work to perfection 2 beating impossible odds 3 concentrating so hard I get a headache 4 sweating from the pressure 5 watching my opponents face when he loses 6 watching when he gets suprised 7 valiently trying to survive a lost cause 8 unquenchable thirst to pit my wit against a worthy opponent 9 losing 10 VICTORY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noncom: Why do people wargame<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To Crush your enemies See them driven before you And hear the lamentations of the women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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