Mi_Go

go to http://combathq.thegamers.net/ they have a ton of awesome mods there

they are both in the game

cool, glad we agree to semi agree for the record, I do agree that a lot of people will use it in a gamey way. I just don't think its right to remove the ability from people who would not use it in a gamey way. It all goes back to who you play against I guess. Anyway, I am done with this thread. gl germanboy, may all your opponents be honorable so you don't get frustrated ( I know I would if my opponents constatly did a gamey tactic)

why do I war game? 1 watching a plan work to perfection 2 beating impossible odds 3 concentrating so hard I get a headache 4 sweating from the pressure 5 watching my opponents face when he loses 6 watching when he gets suprised 7 valiently trying to survive a lost cause 8 unquenchable thirst to pit my wit against a worthy opponent 9 losing 10 VICTORY

GERMAN BOY ps. didn't take it personal (you got your message in while I was writing the last 1)

MIRAGE/GERMANBOY ok, sorry completly misread your replies, please ignore above except for general concept. here is my new response MIRAGE: Agree completely with your position on using a crew of knocked out VEHICLE behind the lines to take objective. that would be gamey. I think I need to make clear that difference, VEHICLE crews are basically useless in battle, I will agree with that. I'm more concerned with wep crews (including bunkers) that run out of ammo/knocked out. They are infantry, and it is not gamey to use them as such. imo. GERMANBOY I am not sure that your post is along the same lines as my answer. Personally, I don't look @ the turn counter, except to see how long I have to suffer when I get pummelled. Now, in an operation, I would be more careful with some weps crews, not all certainly, and I would probably still take my objective with them if possible. But I believe the crux of the issue is what you read into your individual mission. When I play a single battle, it is just that, a single battle. I autmatically assume I don't have to worry about a counter attack or anything else after the battle is completed. Now, If what you are actually saying is people don't play it "correctly" because they know the game ends @ x turns, then play them an operation. problem solved. If they take a risk with their support units, its THEIR risk. Don't make the game so that no one can take that risk. That removes a legitimate strategy from some 1 willing to take it. hope that made sense to every 1

2 the 2 that replied to my 1st post. I understand your point. I would agree that sending a crew of 5 to take a defended area would not be realistic. I do have a problem with people continually stating that in real life the units would be removed from the line and moved to the rear (vehicle crews I agree are somewhat gamey in combat use, unless you put them in a defensive foxhole type position in a quiete sector). However, wep crews are INFANTRY, plain and simple. They are trained to use threir crew weps IN ADDITION to the normal training. A commander in the field is not going to send 6 able bodied troops to the rear in the middle of a battle. He will attach them to another unit or he will give them an assignment. maybe he will make them runners, but removing them would not be a viable option. In CM, the size of the battle actually adds to my point of view. Onboard units are CLOSE support, they are expected to fight. these are not guys on 155s behind the lines, and these are not non combat troops (except for the spotters ). anyways i have rambled and probably lost my point. sorry. just my opinion. ps. the other thing I dislike about this argument is this: why don't you (no one in particular here, anybody) pick a different opponent and agree before hand what is "gamey". Why force a change on people that don't agree with your point of view?

I've said it before and I'll say it again here. All of you who think it is gamey to use mortar/at and even crews as infantry is "gamey" are smoking crack. situation, I am a commander looking @ my objective from my cp in a 2 story house. I actually see 5 or 6 men digging into the objective to defend it. All my units are engaged except for the 20 odd men sitting around in the house with me because their mortar/at/mg are out of ammo. Well, I guess we can't take the objective now, cause that would be gamey? I don't think so, I tell them to get their asses up and take the objective. period.

you have also got to remember that a AT pillbox was not really meant to defend from the firing side. it was meant to defend the side/rear/top and some of the front. Because it was part of a system, it was assumed that it only had to be responsible for defending its weak spot, its front end. In CM, I have actually had more trouble knocking out mg bunkers, probably cause they model the vision slit a lot smaller so it is harder to hit (any 1 know if that is correct?). Let me ask you this, did u get a shot off with your 88? if not, that is your real problem. The fastest way for me to knock out AT pillboxes has been to get more than 1 target for them to shoot at. They may get 1 tank, but the 2nd almost always does the job before the AT gun can switch targets.

I would like to point out a couple of problem with people calling crew use as infantry "gamey" 1. a single crew may have 6 guys in it. Lets say 2 rifles. not that serious a threat. Now let me give you an example of where they are a legit threat that isn't supported right now. 4 crews UNDER COMMAND. thats 2 dozen men with a commander. your telling me its "gamey" for them to hold a spot or even attack a spot. Thats both crazy and un realistic. that many men have the firepower and the manpower to be a legit threat on CM battlefields. its very phony to think these guys couldn't take a spot defended by a squad that was beat up and tired from a half hour of constant fighting. Let me put it another way. I'm a company commander, I see my objective 200 meters away, clear line of site, I can COUNT 6 guys digging in to defend it. My combat squads are engaged, but I have a big pile of guys sitting in the building behind me doing nothing because their crew served wep is empty. hmmmm what am I going to do?? 2. I also have to agree that if you are playing against people that use tactics you are not comfortable with, you should get new opponents. How about talking with your opponent before hand to agree with what is "fair" and what is "gamey"

got to disagree with you on weapon sounds. I think the majority of the weapon sound in CM are correct or very close. @ least the ones I've heard/seen fired in real life. Of course, I haven't heard the flak cannon. But most of the small arms are right on.

GI TOM yeah i play coc, trying to get coc players into this game. It rocks, and you don't have to hear people whining about cheats