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240 mm artilery strike - Can that kill tanks?

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Colin Senior Member

Colin

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I'm an idiot but I'll give it a shot.

It all depends on where the shell falls. If its by the treads then it could immobilize it or even cause the crew to bail. As you destroying Panthers....I'm not too sure...I'm sure you could get lucky with 105's and things like that but of course in CM like in real life this don't always happen consistently.

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EScurlock Senior Member

EScurlock

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Great pictures. 240mm shell would weigh about 250lbs maybe more. A close round could kill the troops inside by concusion alone. Heavy artillary has been known to blow the turrets off of even heavy tanks. A close hit could may even send a tank tumbling, disableing the tank and killing the crew. A direct hit may cause internal ammunition to explode even if the armor isn't penetrated...etc, etc, etc...

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He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.

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Guest John Pender

Guest John Pender

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Neutral Party,

Im glad you enjoyed the pics at that url but the thanks go to Mikeathome. He posted the url in reply to the post "battle damage pics".

Take care

John Pender

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CoolColJ Senior Member

CoolColJ

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I lost a Hellcat to some artillery barrage the AI put on me in LD scenario - so yeah! But Hellcat is open top, but it was buttoned up biggrin.gif

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CCJ

aka BLITZ_Force

My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj

Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my music while your there! :P

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Bullethead Senior Member

Bullethead

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Oh gawd! Now playing on a BBS near you, it's "Return of the Son of the HE vs. Armor Thread" eek.gif

Remember, there are 2 cases to consider here, direct hits and near misses

1) Direct Hit

I'm sure the 240 could destroy a Panther with a direct hit, if the hit was in a lucky spot--I've seen 155mm do that to a T72 with a hit on the turret ring. Hits elsewhere MIGHT still knock out the tank due to internal spalling killing the crew or breaking vital equipment. But odds are, the tank WILL be damaged to some extent, perhaps even mission-killed. Drivetrain components such as transmissions and suspensions can get twisted into scrap, delicate equipment like sights can be knocked out of alignment, and the crew can get KO'd by being bounced off the walls inside. The armor will, however, keep out the concussion and flash in most cases. However, riveted armor is MUCH more likely to get knocked loose and sent inside than cast, even if it was thick enough to keep the shell from penetrating.

It's hard to know where to draw the line on this stuff. I've read that the radiators of Tiger Is could be shredded by arty landing on the engine deck, although the engine itself and the rest of the tank usually survived basically unharmed. I've also seen an LAV survive a direct hit by a 122mm HE that hit at nearly plate normal to the front slope after falling from several miles up in the sky. Fortunately, this shell just broke up instead of exploding or neither I nor the exposed LAV crewmen would be here now. Don't know if an explosion would have done much more damage anyway, however. Still, the impact alone really screwed up the front suspension of the LAV. It kept moving but was down by the bow and listing to port a bit. The crew appeared OK, just shaken. I don't know if the gunsight was still aligned.

2) Near Misses

A big enough shell hitting the ground VERY close MIGHT flip the tank from the force of the explosion. A 500-lb. bomb could flip a Tiger if it hit close aboard, but I don't know if a 240mm HE could flip a Panther. I do know, however, that a 155mm HE shell couldn't do it. This size will only shake an APC, which is much lighter than a tank, although a hit under the tailgate will flip a 6x6 truck.

If the shell hits a few feet further away, were the explosion can't get a grip under the edge of the vehicle to flip it, then you're basically talking only about shell fragments because the armor will keep out the blast. The topic of shell fragments penetrating armor was discussed in great and gory detail in the "HE vs. Armor" thread a week or so ago. But to summarize, all shell fragments regardless of shell size have about the same velocity, which is not nearly as fast as the whole shell itself. Thus, you need fairly big, massive fragments to have any real chance of getting through even light armor.

Small shells (from about 90-100mm on down) make mostly small (thumbnail-sized, 1 ounce or so) fragments that can't usually penetrate light armor. But as shell size increases, some of the shell stays in bigger chunks, besides making a lot of the small fragments. The bigger the shell, the more and bigger are these chunks, and the more KE they have. With big enough (say 16") shells, these big fragments can penetrate even modern MBT armor (at least in some places) at considerable distances from the explosion. Again, it's fuzzy where to draw the line on this, but a 240mm could probably make some fragments weighing several pounds, which might have been able to get through a Panther's side or rear armor despite their low speed, irregular shape, and lack of a hard point on impact.

However, tank suspensions and tracks aren't armored and even the small fragments can chew up road wheels. So with enough fragments (and the bigger the shell, the more fragments in total), a near miss could immobilize a tank by cutting the track itself or taking out the wheels. I'd expect a 240mm to have had a fair chance of doing this if it hit close enough that the cloud of smaller fragments got a lot of hits.

-Bullethead

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