GhostOne Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 This may have come up before but I didn't see it. I've had a couple of occasions where my Shermans have taken a gun hit and from that point on they won't unbutton (command not available) and they won't use the MG's. They will follow all movement orders and even after recovering from shock they will do nothing but drive where I tell them to and sit there. This doesn't seem realistic and I thought I had seen other posts where people had used gunless tanks as moving MG buses. Is this a bug or is it likely that the gun hit took out the main plus the MG's? Either way, shouldn't we be able to unbutton them? Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pham Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 If one of the crew is killed in a tank, the option to unbutton no longer exists. As for a moving MG after the main gun is damaged, it should be allowed. Possibly both the main gun and machine gun(s) were damaged in the hit? Of course, it may also be that the greater the crew casualty rate the less functional the tank. Not sure if that's how it works, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maastrictian Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 I've seen Gun Damaged tanks fire their MGs. Quite effectively actually. --Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom w Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 is it possible in this case that the Main gun was damaged AND the machine gunner was killed, thus the tank would not un-button I have not had this happen or seen it but it may have been a crew kill on the machine gun so it would not work? -tom <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GhostOne: This may have come up before but I didn't see it. I've had a couple of occasions where my Shermans have taken a gun hit and from that point on they won't unbutton (command not available) and they won't use the MG's. They will follow all movement orders and even after recovering from shock they will do nothing but drive where I tell them to and sit there. This doesn't seem realistic and I thought I had seen other posts where people had used gunless tanks as moving MG buses. Is this a bug or is it likely that the gun hit took out the main plus the MG's? Either way, shouldn't we be able to unbutton them? Ghost<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 Check the stats on the tank in question (if you still have a saved game file) and see whether or not there is a functioning machine gun on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVarak Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 This happened to me in a current PBEM game. I don't have a saved file unfortunately. It took a gun hit, and it wouldn't fire the MG's either. There were working MG's listed in the stats for the tank. ------------------ Rob Varak Editor Site on Sound: The Web's Premier Site For Musical Discussion www.siteonsound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 I had a gun damaged Sherman (by sniper fire!) in a Riesberg PBEM (AAR up at CMHQ). What I noticed upon repeated viewings of the turns was that the main gun and co-ax machine gun wouldn't fire. What DID fire, though, was the bow MG, which as far as I know can't be independently targeted. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 Hmmn I've had numerous games where the gun was hit and I've never seen the tank fire an MG after that - I thought it was meant to be that way, never said anything before because I didnt want to nitpick - but if they are supposed to be functional (which would make sense if the gunner isnt dead) then that would be a big plus Why the heck havent I seen em fire tho? ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 Guess warning -- Guess warning! If there are working MGs, I'm *guessing* that the crew casualty is the culprit. No triggeree, no firee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 Rob - if this happened during a PBEM game, maybe you still have one of the PBEM files in your email programs incoming (or deleted) folder? You can use this to re-load each turn individually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOne Posted May 30, 2000 Author Share Posted May 30, 2000 I did have a crew casualty when I took the gun hit (tank commander I believe)but it still would seem that the loader and gunner would switch to the MG's as they sure aren't manning a ruined main gun any longer. I've seen it happen twice with the Shermans and they never fired MG's after that. Is this a bug? Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Here's the MG logic: 1. Bow MG: Cannot fire if the crew has suffered any casualties. The assumption is that even if it wasn't the bow MGer who got hit, he's probably moved over to fill in for whoever did get hit (e.g. driver, main gunner). 2. Coax MG: Cannot fire if main gun is KOed (assumption is optics/fire control are out of action) or if the crew has more than one casualty. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellshock Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Charles: forgive my ignorance but maybe there is a problem with the logic. It seems to me that by your 2 rules that if there is a gun hit AND a casualty then neither the coax or the bow mg will fire. This to me would represent the bow gunner sitting behind the now useless main gun. If this is wrong or I'm just crazy please let me know. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOne Posted May 31, 2000 Author Share Posted May 31, 2000 I can accept the assumption of Logic Rule 2 regarding the Coax but with the Main Gun knocked out you have free crew to man the Bow MG even with a casualty as Shellshock has stated. Don't mean to nitpick and I hope it's not taken that way as this may be minor in the big picture. However, realistically it could impact a battle to the detriment of the side that has this occur to them. In the scenarios I played where this occurred, I could have severely impacted enemy infantry with the tank MG's and helped my assault substantially. It does seem like this might need to be evaluated more. Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 So a tank with a gun hit is out of action/useless. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Shellshock/Ghostone - you have a point. I'll check into that. However in practice, by the time a vehicle has a gun out and a casualty, the crew has usually bailed out anyway (not always, but often). And I'm undecided whether I'd really want to allow a tank in that condition to keep fighting. I think most real-life crews at that point would decide to retire and return to fight again another day. Echo - a gun-out tank isn't useless if the crew is OK. The bow MG is still operable, as is the AAMG if there is one. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 DOH! slap......smack......slap.....thank you for straightening me out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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