Jarmo Posted July 13, 2000 Author Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chrisl: There is some FOW in vehicle destruction, but I've only noticed it at very close range (~100 m).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, if you have absolutely no contact with a unit, you don't see when it dies. But if you have a contact with a unit, you instantly notice if it dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Sergei, you are correct. I forgot Ilomäki's name and remembered his kills incorrectly. The third highest scorer was private 1st class Olli Soimala, who destroyed 4xT-34-85s and a ISU-152 at Leitimojärvi (25.6), 2xT-34-85s at Portinhoikka (29.6), and 4xT-34-85s at Vuosalmi (11.-12.7.). Soimala served in 2nd company of the Rynnäkkötykkipataljoona (Assault gun batallion). The company destroyed 43 Soviet tanks with losing only one (it was immobilized at Kuuterselkä) Another StuG was damaged at Leitimojärvi but it was quickly repaired. The company lost only 4 KIA, 1 MIA, and 12 wounded during the summer battles. For some strange reason the company commander captain Talvitie didn't get a Mannerheim's Cross. It's not completely clear whether the 2./Ryn.Tyk.P. was the most effective Finnish tank killer unit in 1944. The 14.Tyk.K./JR7 (AT-gun company) destroyed 34-43 tanks with Panzerfausts and -shrecks. (The company had only 45mm guns and didn't get any kills using them). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 13, 2000 Author Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tss: Soimala served in 2nd company of the Rynnäkkötykkipataljoona (Assault gun batallion). The company destroyed 43 Soviet tanks with losing only one (it was immobilized at Kuuterselkä) Another StuG was damaged at Leitimojärvi but it was quickly repaired.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We're quickly going very far from the original subject, but hell... You know if those were T-34's, that would make the score even more incredinble! I had no idea we had stugs. I was under impression there were almost no tanks on finnish side. Any tigers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 14, 2000 Author Share Posted July 14, 2000 I'll pop this upwards in hope to see comments to original issue from some authoritative figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Any idea how allied behaved? Did they stop shooting once a german tank was hit? I'm sure they didn't feel the need to totally destroy everything, but maybe they'd still put in a few shots just to be sure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just Commonwealth: A KO is regarded as such when the enemy crew bail out and/or the enemy veh goes up in flames. Sorry but I have no idea how the US defined a KO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 Jarmo wrote: You know if those were T-34's, that would make the score even more incredinble! The main AFV types that Finnish StuGs met in combat were T-34s (mostly -85, some -76), KV-IEs, JS-IIs, and JSU-152s. There were also a few JS-Is and a couple light tanks: T-60, T-70, and like. I'm once again away from my sources so I can't give exact enemy types. Also, as I have mentioned before on this forum, enemy tank identification was not a precision science among Finnish tankers. The battalion reported that they had destroyed numerous KV-Is at Vuosalmi but we know now for certain that Soviets hadn't a single Klim there, and the tanks were JS-IIs instead. I had no idea we had stugs. I was under impression there were almost no tanks on finnish side. Any tigers? There was only one Finnish tank unit, Panssaridivisioona (Armored division). There were plenty of T-26s (> 100, I can't remember the actual number) but anything heavier than that was scarce. There were 1 T-50, 7 T-28s, 2 KV-Is, and 7 T-34s. Also, nearly always at least some of the heavier tanks were in maintenance. The Finnish StuGs were bought from Germany in 1943 and 1944. A total of 59 were bought. During the summer battles they destroyed a total of 87 Soviet AFVs while losing 8 of their own number. (The official war-time records had only 82 kills but later analysis has shown that there were actually at least 87 kills). In addition to the 8 that were lost permanently, a number wasdamaged and "mission-killed" but they could be quickly repaired. The heaviest battle for the StuGs was the Kuuterselkä counter-attack where they destroyed 21 AFVs and lost 5. According to Soviet sources they lost a total of 40 AFVs in that battle, the rest being destroyed in bombing and by Panzerfausts and -schrecks. Finland also bought 15 PzKw IVJs but they arrived too late to see action against Soviets. However, they were used in Lappland against Germans for a while but they were removed because they couldn't cross streams too well. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 14, 2000 Author Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tss: Finland also bought 15 PzKw IVJs but they arrived too late to see action against Soviets. However, they were used in Lappland against Germans for a while but they were removed because they couldn't cross streams too well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL! Must have made a few guys at german high command a bit peeved. I thought it was american privilege to arm soon-to-be-enemy countries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: LOL! Must have made a few guys at german high command a bit peeved. I thought it was american privilege to arm soon-to-be-enemy countries! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not just that, but in addition the German Mountain Army in Lapland had only old French Somua and Hotchkiss tanks and some Pz-III's, totally obsolete by that date. I bet if there are still any of those German veterans alive, they don't think anything good about Finland, especially the mosquitos of Lapland... heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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