killmore Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 While playing LD I kept firing at MG42 team. At certain point if I would select that MG42 info it would say "Immobilized". I thought only vehicles can get that... What does it really mean? Is MG too heavy for one person to carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killmore: While playing LD I kept firing at MG42 team. At certain point if I would select that MG42 info it would say "Immobilized". I thought only vehicles can get that... What does it really mean? Is MG too heavy for one person to carry?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that's what it means. If your HMG team (does apply to all, methinks) is down to one man, it becomes stationary. The guy might lift the gun, but won't be able to take the ammo, is the rationale IIRC. In the case of the MG42, he could use the replacement barrels as pointed sticks, though ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 Yep - one guy can't schlep the gun and everything else (i.e. ammo and a tripod) Sometimes the guy will drop the gun and run away, becoming unarmed - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 Yeah Germanboy, you will have many immobilized HMG and MMG's pretty soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt52: becoming unarmed - Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What about pointed sticks, though They could also use Pineapples to throw. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 Yes, Germanboy, how about that immobilized MG42 at the edge of the woods. Yes, yes, you immobilized my .50 cal too. ------------------ "Cry Woe...Destruction...Ruin and Decay. The worst is Death...and Death will have His day."--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: Yeah Germanboy, you will have many immobilized HMG and MMG's pretty soon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From what? Your tankers plowing through a wheatfield and scratching their butts? If you want me, you know where to find me ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 I just said up yours baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 In the beta demo HMGs won't be abandoned. They will just sit there until killed or captured. In the full version they will abandon it. Sorry to bring this thread back to topic. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin: Sorry to bring this thread back to topic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, Colin, how dare you, tsk tsk tsk... Just to get it back off topic - OB&G, that wasn't immobilised, it was dead, just did not realise it. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 Germanboy wrote: What about pointed sticks, though They could also use Pineapples to throw. Or they could use sharpened mangos... The final episode of a Black Adder rerun was aired yesterday. George: "You know, that's the thing I don't really understand about you, Cap. You're a professional soldier, and yet, sometimes you sound as though you bally well haven't enjoyed soldiering at all." B.A.: "Well, you see, George, I did like it, back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. The kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass." - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tss: The kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass." - Tommi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And wasn't the only requirement for officers that you should be able to say 'Do you do it doggie-style?' in Suaheli I love Blackadder, such apt comment on the Brits! We Germans would never be able to be so hard on ourselves. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 And wasn't the only requirement for officers that you should be able to say 'Do you do it doggie-style?' in Suaheli No, you also had to know how to order gin. The final series, "Black Adder Goes Forth" has some truly marvellous military quotes, especially when discussing about secret plans: "Melchett: You look surprised, Blackadder. Edmund: I certainly am, sir. I didn't realise we had any battle plans. Melchett: Well, of course we have! How else do you think the battles are directed? Edmund: Our battles are directed, sir? Melchett: Well, of course they are, Blackadder -- directed according to the Grand Plan. Edmund: Would that be the plan to continue with total slaughter until everyone's dead except Field Marshal Haig, Lady Haig and their tortoise, Alan? Melchett: Great Scott! (stands) Even you know it! Guard! Guard! Bolt all the doors; hammer large pieces of crooked wood against all the windows! This security leak is far worse than we'd imagined!" And: "Melchett: Good man. Now, Field Marshal Haig has formulated a brilliant new tactical plan to ensure final victory in the field. [they gather around a model of the battlefield] Blackadder: Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Darling: How can you possibly know that Blackadder? It's classified information." I found the scripts online at http://hem.passagen.se/dunsel/ba.htm . - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 1, 2000 Share Posted March 1, 2000 tss, thanks for posting the link - jolly good laugh alround, eh? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durruti Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 LOL , You know the worst thing about Britain? We put up statues to and name streets after such scumbags as General Haig. I should know, I live in Haig Road, East London (couldn't find a house for sale on Orwell Street). The statue of 'Bomber' Harris has been defaced a few times though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Mannschft Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Hello, Just for the Record, In my WWII Re-enactment Unit I carry and Fire the Squad's MG-42 (Visit our Site at http://www.adweb.net/boba/pnwhg) and I find the Idea of an Immoblized MG-42 is really quite silly. One: It CAN be detached from the Laffete Mount 42 (The Tripod) and even though the gun is 27 Lbs, It still be carried by one man. Two: The gun's ammo can be carried over the shoulder in two combined 50 round belts to form 100 round ones, or If the man is using the Doppel drums he can carry the gun and extra ammo and be quite mobile. Three: If the gunner lost all of his buddies, he would join up with a larger formation of troops (If any) Four: The Spare Barrels are Light and one can be easly slung over his shoulder. Well, just my two cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Uhh... Seems to be an awful lot that the one MG42 person would have to carry around with himself. The Gun, Boxed Ammunition, Spare barrels... It would be EXTREMELY complicated to program in another squad or body of troops to take up the positions of the gunner's dead comerades. How much ammo could one carry over one's sholders? A few 100 round belts? That's a bit much for one individual to tote around a live battlefield and move at a reasonable pace. They would also have to set up the gun, in a good position. It is just too much for a lone individual to do, especially in such a situation. If indeed they were allowed to move, they would lose SO much of their ammo, and their efficency that he would have been better to remain where he was. Also, I am pretty sure that these HMG's on tripods weren't issued with the drum ammunition. The LMG version was, this is why they can move it around with little impediments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 1. What you are talking about is what CM terms an LMG 42. 2. I'd prefer having an immobile HMG42 on tripod than a mobile LMG42 with only 200 rounds (those things run out of ammo SO quickly). 3. Unless we had HMG42s with only 1 man remaining magically warp into LMG42s I don't see a simple way to model this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Mannschft Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Well, I'm sorry, but there is NO difference between a Mg-42 on a Tripod, and a MG-42 with just a bi-pod besides fixed fields of fire and greater accuracy on the Laffete, they are the same gun. It is not a LMG or a HMG It is a Multi-purpose Mahine gun. It can do the roll of either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MG Mannschft: Hello, Just for the Record, In my WWII Re-enactment Unit I carry and Fire the Squad's MG-42 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> MG Mannschft do you own the gun? If so how much did it set you back? ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there, or grab a CM Wallpaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Well, in order to sucessfully modify a HMG-42 to a LMG-42 you must meet some criteria. Firstly, the Tripod MG42 must have a Bipod already attached to it, so, when you remove it you will have some sort of support to fire the thing. I am not sure if all MG42's were issued with Bipods if they were the Tripod model. Possibly so. Next you have to deal with the Ammo problem. Carrying more than a few belts of ammo, the Gun, plus any extra barrels would be too much even for the supposed supermen of Nazi Germany (they still only have 2 shoulders:). This gun has a STUPENDOUS firing rate and could go through the few belts in a couple bursts. The Tripod HMG's were not issued the Drum magazines that the LMG's were. I don't think that I ever said that they were different guns, just that the two gun classifications (HMG and LMG) are specifically modified to fit certain roles. You don't have the tools on the battlefield to sucessfully modify a HMG42 to a LMG42, nor would you have the time to gather them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Mannschft Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 CoolColJ: The Mg-42 Was Very expensive...Oh man. It Ran Us about $15,000.00 as it is 1944 Dated and in Beautyful Condition (And a Class III Registered Machine Gun). As for the Laffete M42, that was $1,000.00, This was in Great condition and is Dated and Waffenampt 1943! However, I did not pay for it, It's my Father's who is also in The Re-enactment group, I am 17. Once I get enough money together (And turn 21) Im going to buy it from him since he likes to carry a normal K-98 onto the field. And Major Tom, All Mg-42's where issued the Bi-pod, They were all given the "Assault Drum" or doppel drum and All MG-42s even in the Squad (Rotte) of 10-12 Men, the Thrid Machine Gunner was Given a Rifle and a TRIPOD to carry. To Remind you, This is a Basic German Infantry Squad Layout. 1.) First man is the Squad Leader, he carryes a MP-40 and commands the Squad. 2.) Second man is the Machine Gunner, he carries the MG-42/34 and a Pistol. 3.) Third man is the Second machine gunner, he carries 2/250 round Ammo boxes and a Spare Barrel. 4.)Forth man is the Third Man on the MG Team, As I said, He carries the LAffete M-42 The Tripod. 5.) The rest of the Riflemen Carry a K-98 Rifle and Most of the Time Carry one 50 or 100 Round Belt over their Shoulder. 6.) The Last Man is the Second in Command, he keeps the Rear and also actually Commands the Normal Riflemen, as the 1st man The Squad Leader Positions the MG-42 so it can fully impact on the Enemy. Major Tom, You Wrote: "You don't have the tools on the battlefield to sucessfully modify a HMG42 to a LMG42, nor would you have the time to gather them." With ONE switch on the Tri-pod, The MG-42 is lifted off of the Tripod and Bam, There you go a "LMG." There are NO TOOLS REQUIRED TO CHANGE FROM "LIGHT" TO "HEAVY." Plus, why would one Use a HEAVY machine Gun to Assault? For a Heavy is for Defensive Positions, with Pre-Determined Ranges and Selected Fields of Fire. Not For Assualt. Also, When Firing the MG-42 in Combat, you give a 1-2 Second Burst (You where ORDERED not to shoot anything over 3 Seconds) inwhich hits the target area in a "Shotgun" manner, thus killing anything in that area. The MG-42 fires from 1,000 Round Per minute to 1,500 Round per minute, That is About 20 ROUND PER SECOND. Belive me, I Live-fire it Alot, It's really fast, but just because it fires fast dosent mean it cannot be disaplined, and controled. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Hmm. Interesting. Besides the issue of in-game HMG to LMG conversion (something that was in ASL BTW ) there is the issue of re-crewing the gun. If I were a German commander, I would take soldiers from line squads to recrew a HMG when the crew is wiped out and/or had heavy casualties. One or two riflemen don't contribute much to the action. The MG42 dominates. That brings up a question. Do these MGs ever get damaged? Tanks lose the main guns all the time. I can't recall seeing an MG or mortar put out of action other than by having the crew killed. There should be a method to recrew MGs. If the game destroys the weapon when the crew is wiped out, the player should be able to, say, split a squad and use the half-squad to join the crew before that happens. ASL simulated this because the MGs were separate weapons not integral to a unit. The unit could die, but the gun would remain. I don't think this should apply to mortars because they require more specialized training that regular infantry soldiers usually don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Fionn <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2. I'd prefer having an immobile HMG42 on tripod than a mobile LMG42 with only 200 rounds (those things run out of ammo SO quickly)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Can you please claryfy this statement? Who in heaven has had the idea to give the MG with bipod only 200 rounds? That is nonsense. Every german squad equipped with a LMG carried at least 1000 rounds of belted (either 4 times 250rounds in the ammo boxes, or more common 5 times 200 round belted). The ammo distribution is the following: MG gunner with his MG and one 200rounds belt, additionally he carries a second 200 rounds belt around his neck or wherever he can stuff it. MG gunner 2 with either 2 ammo boxes and 1 or 2 spare barrels for the MG and in case he doesn´t carry ammo boxes a 200 rounds belt around his neck. The rest of the ammo 200 or 250 rounds in box is given to one of the other squad members. Reason is to have a high ammount of ammo with the MG (usually 600-700 round for MG gunner 1 and 2 together) The 50 rounds drums where, *ähem* more than unpopular (I asked my granddad, he was MG gunner 1 near Leningrad until winter 1943 when they blasted bis right hand to hell) Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 2, 2000 Share Posted March 2, 2000 Well, I haven't fired an MG42 much (just 50 rounds, but I have my eye on getting one ), but it is silly to say that you can go from a 6 man HMG Team to a one man killing machine without penalty. Technically we should allow two surviving men to be able to break down into a LMG team, but this is a bit much to simulate. And yes, in real warfare men were sectioned off to do all sorts of things, but we are talking about a game (yup, CM is a game ) and that stuff is WAY too niggly. Why not have a guy pick up an MP44 or Thompson when it is dropped? Or have one guy run ahead 500m and scout? Or have one guy jump in and lug around AT ammo? Etc. The arguments can be applied to pretty much any weapon you like. Nope, things are kept simple and consistant. A weapon "dies" with its owner. It doesn't matter if we are talking a guy with an SMG, bazooka, or MG. And that is the way it shall remain In the heat of battle this is more likely to be the case than not. Also, the Germans very much DID use the HMG on the assault depending on the circumstances. The purpose was to surpress enemy positions so that the assaulting infantry could advance easier. Obviously in a fluid battle an HMG (of whatever flavor) is not generally usefull. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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