Scott C Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 I just had the AI perform just about the most idiotic blunder possible. I'm playing VoT as Allies (I end up with an 8:1 kill ratio and a 95/5 Total Victory - everything went my way). The Panther shows up, as usual. Unfortunately for it, all six of my tanks are up on the hill in the middle of the map providing fire support, and one of the 105s scores a gun hit before the Panther can fire. Then comes the bone-headed blunder. The Panther decides, "Gee, there are three Sherman 75s, two Sherman 105s, and a Sherman 76 shooting merrily at my frontal armor, which has deflected the last dozen hits. I think I'll turn around and charge backwards down the hill." And that's exactly what it does - with SIX tanks shooting at it, it presents its rear armor to them (somehow every last shot missed while it was turning) and then charged straight at them in reverse. The results were predictable - the 76 got a rear turret penetration, the Panther bursts into flames, and not a single crew member makes it out of the tank. Anybody else seen anything stupider? P.S. I've been playing the beta and now gold demo a lot, and this is the only time I've ever seen the AI do something dumb. I'd guess it's just a rare (obviously, or it would've already been corrected) glitch, not worth worrying about, but it's certainly an entertaining story. ------------------ Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 Unfortunately, there is no way to make things perfect While the TacAI behaves very well over all, and so does the StratAI, both can and will make obvious mistakes. The only thing we can do is look for trends and if we spot them see what can be done about coding around the problem. One off incidents can sometimes be spotted in the code and corrected for, but more often than not the reason for the blunder remains a mystery. But that Panther should not have been ordered to do what it did. We'll keep our ears open for other similar events just in case there is a trend. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 What? You never heard of "Let's back that ass up"? or a "Rear Assault"? LOL, sorry--couldn't resist. ------------------ "Why don't we say that we took this one chance, and fought!" "Stupid humans. Hahahahahahaha!" --from the film Battlefield Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 Hi Steve and Charles, I've seen the same thing but from the American side with one of my Shermans. In my case, it looked like the tank was reacting evasively but towards freindly units. I had some zooks and engineer and flamethrower squads in the vicinity. I wonder if there were any shrecks around the Tiger in Scott's case. Definitely smells like a small programming glich that got through and not really a Tac AI "blunder". p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted May 14, 2000 Author Share Posted May 14, 2000 Nope - all the shrecks were toast by that point. Also, some of what Steve said made me want to clarify. By ANY measure, CM's AI is far and away the best I have ever seen. I have at least a little knowledge of AI programming, so I understand that even the best-designed AI will "hiccup" occasionally and do odd things. All I meant was that sometimes the hiccups can be entertaining... and since I've only seen one in all this time, while seeing many things I _thought_ were bad ideas turn out to slaughter me, I am very impressed. Go BTS! ------------------ Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 I don't have the GD (even 5 megs is hard with my crappy ISP and I'll have the real thing soon anyway) but maybe the thing I'm thinking of is still around.... I'm thinking maybe some sort of ground friction or traction issue might have been involved, because I find it hard to believe the AI would do something like this. Basically, I envision the common AI thing of turning around instead of backing, but then it basically fell down the hill from gravity instead of driving there. I say this because I've seen dead tanks slide for a LONG way at times in the old demo. Even if they were sideways to the direction of motion. The slope didn't have to be very steep, either: "StuG Ridge" in the old CE would do it. In cases of gentle slopes, the wreck would sometimes take a minute or so to reach the bottom, moving very very slowly. I don't know if this can effect live vehicles (never seen it) but if it could, perhaps being in "slide" mode prevents a tank from driving? Who knows? Damn, my keg's floating again..... ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_ross Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 The Panther reversed down the hill with me too: all the way through the town to the wall. My remaining Sherman's didn't kill it, because the German's surrendered at that point. One explanation could be that I was currently occupying the main hilltop from the southern side of the road. The Panther probably hadn't seen any of my troops before advancing over the ridge and found infantry covering its entire left flank (and a platoon was on its right about 100 metres away being suppressed by the 75-turret), it ran away as quickly as possible; showing its front to the nearest danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 In my case with the Sherman it happened all the way near the beginning of the scenario. There really wasn't anything threatening that had LOS except maybe the 75AT bunker very momentarily. It was the second tank in a column of 2 and I gave them both orders to fast-advance maybe 50m or so down the road. The first tank executed the instruction properly, but the 2nd one changed it's orders immediately at the beginning of the playback turned around and reversed uphill (I forget the hill number of that big cliff overhanging Plomville) and into LOS of the enemy. Really weird. It wasn't a game wrecking move or anything - I got him right back on course in the next turn and he survived and performed with distinction. I remember someone mentionned this with the early beta demo but I never saw it happen there, but it rang a bell when I saw it in VofT. Steve & Charles - is this rare enough that we should hang on to save games to pass on??? p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 Kinda reminds me of my own play when I unitentionally ordered my Panther to REVERSE ® rather than ROTATE (S) towards a US held hill....took me a day or so to finally realise how I made that mistake (instinctively thought that ® was ROTATE of course!) Lt. Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted May 14, 2000 Share Posted May 14, 2000 I also had a panther about face, back into an obvious kill zone and get...obviously killed! I don't envy BTS the job of trying to figure this one out...but I've seen enough posts here to think this is a trend. It seems most people have seen this with the Panther. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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