Hans Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 Taking the side that in CM that you still need to do some Recon as your forces advance. The problem You have a few vehicles or squads moving forward to find the enemy..they do.....and they open fire! What I think is needed, along with the Fast Move, Move and Hunt command is the Recce command. In Recce a vehicle moves slowly, stoping to listen and senting its crew forward to look over ridgelines etc. It is looking the enemy and also trying NOT to be seen. Additionally when it sights the enemy IT DOESN'T FIRE! it takes immediate steps to back up or otherwise not be seen*. The same move should also be available for leg units. Units with radios would have the options to call for fire-but only for vehicles and units that were/are used for reconnaissance. Just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 Oh, you just suggested to use arty spotters for recon missions. They're stealthy, don't shoot at the enemy and can call arty fire... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 What I have started doing is creating an Ad Hoc recce platoon consisting of: 1 HQ 2 mortars 3 HTs 2 Armored cars. Move the Armored cars out front to find the enemy, followed by the HT carrying the HQ. The mortars follow ~75m behind the HQ. When an enemy position is spotted, I withdraw the ACs, position the HQ in cover with LOS and let them mortars rip. At the same time I move up supporting infantry, which should be following ~100m behind the mortars. WWB ------------------ Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salatamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayer Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans: What I think is needed, along with the Fast Move, Move and Hunt command is the Recce command.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've often wanted this sort of thing myself, but I realize it's a matter of a fine line between giving the user too much control or not enough. If we let the AI handle all the actions of recce, then we turn over perhaps too much of the leadership of our forces to the tac AI. OTOH, we can only partially replcicate a reconaissance action using the current commands (movement, hunting, pause, etc.). I think some of this feeds into the discussion of whether the game should support standard operating procedures (SOP). Setting SOPs is pretty much one of the tasks of a commander, but gamers don't usually want too much control taken from their hands (and tac AIs are notorious for not being the best subordinates, though CM's is pretty darn good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans: In Recce a vehicle moves slowly, stoping to listen and senting its crew forward to look over ridgelines etc. It is looking the enemy and also trying NOT to be seen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hans, I see your point, but, the game already has an inherent built in reece command. You see, the action (i.e., scenario) is assumed to happen after the reece has been completed, and reported back to HQ. Assets have been allocated, etc. That's why they give you a scenario briefing. And just like reece, sometimes it's right, sometimes its wrong. The game, as I see it, represents a point well past the early stages of an engagment. Units are already at the Lines of Departure ready to jump off. After all, the scenario is done in a few turns (avg. = 20). Reece happens 3-4 hours prior. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervulf Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 I hear alot of people saying that in CM, the recon is assumed to allready have taken place therfore you dont need to do it. Actually there is a situation where good recon is called for. Operations. Especially the first battle of a big one(battalion). I just played one like that and the gist of the briefing was "you have just arrived in the area. the enemy is that way. go get em." The map was big and the time was short (15 turns) I had to move my battalion fast. let me tell you in that situation i was not going to move my force that fast in that terrain (forest and hills) without haveing at least an idea of what was in front of me. Yes my scout cars fired when they found the enemy but that was ok cuz they caused alot of disruption to the enemy. Well i guess my whole point is that sometimes recon is needed and SOMETIMES its ok if they fire on the enemy they just found. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 Besides it could be fun sometime just to play the recce units.. Ive tried to make an operation that starts with the recce units but you actually wind up playing the first battle like an attack with recce units... Im definately pro recce command... ------------------ Wof, wof, wof, wof... Thats my other dog imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 I feal the same way, however reading Brian's comments about the briefing etc he has a valid point, which I think I will from now on keep in mind. Still like the idea of the HQ spotting for the mort, I've used this to good effect. Try it with Elite troops they drop them right down the commanders turret!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 I forgot to mention the MG team I usually keep with the recon unit. Usually comes in handy and rides with the HQ, giving it a fighting chance incase of disastorous suprise. If one wants to beef up this unit, put a Pz IV or Sherman with the mortars. Now it is Armored recon instead of Mech recon. In order to buy such a team one usually has to get a heavy weapons team and get halftracks for them. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 Talking of recon units; have you noticed the recon element available for the German Heer? Panzer Recon Heavy Weapons Company (840 pts Regular): 1 81mm mortar spotter 6 75mm IG 2 LMG42 1 20mm FlAK 2 Flame thrower team 3 Pioneer squad 7 SPW251/1 1 Company HQ 2 Platoon HQ That should do for some recon, methinks... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oddball_E8: Besides it could be fun sometime just to play the recce units.. Ive tried to make an operation that starts with the recce units but you actually wind up playing the first battle like an attack with recce units... Im definately pro recce command... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I highly recomend you play "49th recce" by Germanboy. You can find it on the "Der Kessel" website. I found it well balanced, with a very nice map to boot. ------------------ ...This is Romeo-Foxtrot, shall we dance?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: I highly recomend you play "49th recce" by Germanboy. You can find it on the "Der Kessel" website. I found it well balanced, with a very nice map to boot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks Kingfish, that is very kind of you. I just remembered that there is a good website about UK Recce: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9656/ronindex.htm and another one about the US Mech Cav here: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9517/ and this one is excellent. Make sure you sign the guy's guestbook, there is a lot of work that went into this one. ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 11-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: I highly recomend you play "49th recce" by Germanboy. You can find it on the "Der Kessel" website. I found it well balanced, with a very nice map to boot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanx, but i D/L that some time ago... just havent gotten around to playing it yet... Still tied up designing scenarios myself... ------------------ Wof, wof, wof, wof... Thats my other dog imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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