coe Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 I read A Bridge Too Far and there were a few parts which the Germans did some strange things, A.) sending trucks of troops over a bridge when there were all these allied troops at one end B.) Flamethrowing a building but not checking to see if everyone was killed (I think they assumed everyone was dead) then all camping out in the courtyard right below and ending up to be dead meat for the occupants of the building (who were still alive). So I ask did the allies do strange things like that? they must have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Advancing the entire XXX Corps down one road comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coe Posted October 11, 2000 Author Share Posted October 11, 2000 that might be, but I was thinking more on the small unit tactical scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Disregarding intelligence information from Dutch partisans, disregarding the advice of Dutch military officers, paratrooping the Poles into a kill zone... ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 They sent Sherman's into combat, didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ckoharik Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Normandy...hedgerows. I think that would suffice as an excellent example of blatant stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Chupacabra, have you read "Between silk and cyanide" by Leo Marks? Sten ------------------ Keep your whisky on the rocks and your tanks on the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emos Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 The History Channel recently had a series called "Military Blunders" that cover many stupid decisions on both the tactical and strategic level. One example was the US sending B-17 Flying Fortresses deep into Germany with no fighter support to be slaughtered by the Luftwaffe. What made it somewhat senseless is the fact that Britain had made modifications to the Mustang that would have taken the fighter to Germany and back as early as 1942 (I believe). The Army Air Corp ignored their proposals for a long time. ------------------ "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" --Dr. Strangelove-- "We shall crush this evil...and rangers and hamsters everywhere shall rejoice!" --Minsc, Baldur's Gate II-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silesian-jaeger Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 I read in an Ambrose book (Citizen Soldiers) the following; pg254, "On June 10, shortly after midnight, the 2nd battalion of the 29th division settled in for the night. The men had just marched 15 miles in the previos 24 hours. Maj. Maurice Clifft, the executive officer, picked ouy a bivouac area, two enclosed pasturs. The men moved into them and slumped against the hedgerow embankments, so exhausted they didn't even bother to remove their haversacks. Most were asleep immeadiately. Few paid attention to the sound of engines, and those who did figured they were American vehicles. " "German scouts detected the American movement in the pastures. The Germans fired flares.In the eerie light, almost as bright as midday, they fired assault guns over the hedgerows at the sleeping men. Along one hedgerow a full platoon rose up, only to be cut down by a burst of machinegun fire. Other Americans dashed to and fro looking for an escape rout. German rifleman cut them down. German mortar shells exploded all around the pastures." "The battle lasted only twenty minutes. The battalion suffered 150 casualties-fifty killed- or more than one-third of its total strenghth." Sorry for the long post but I thought this showed how any men under strain can make grave mistakes. And it is always easy afterword to second guess them and point out their errors. ------------------ "In one (German) town, Private Honey stood next to an elderly German man and a ten-year-old boy. As the Shermans and brand-new Pershings rumbled by the boy said,'Deutsches Panzer lind besser.' Honey looked down at him and asked,'If German tanks are better, why aren't they here?' " quote from Stephen E. Ambrose, "Citizen Soldiers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: They sent Sherman's into combat, didn't they?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 coe wrote: So I ask did the allies do strange things like that? they must have? Every army did its share of stupid things. Here's one example from the Finnish army. (I've posted this once before): During the Finnish advance to Rukajärvi Soviets established one defence line on the far side of a wide (1-2km) marsh. Finnish scouts noticed the enemy forces and came back to tell the information. The commander of the forward company wisely decided to wait until artillery units could catch the main unit. A little later another Finnish company that was subordinated to the commander of the first company. Its captain decided to attack over the marsh immedietely. Without waiting for artillery. Against direct orders. The result: he lost over half of his company. I can't remember the actual casualty figure but it was somewhere along 70 KIA and dozens of wounded. The worst thing in this was that the captain was not court-martialled. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I read A Bridge Too Far ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "A bridge too far" is one of my favourite films, just because it shows the old saying that "war is a series of misstakes, the side who make the fewest misstakes win". Both sides make many misstakes... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcursor Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 The initial assault on Ft. Driant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dieppe... Kasserine Pass... the Brewster Buffalo... the grease gun... ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Chupacabra wrote: the Brewster Buffalo Buffalo was not that bad plane. Finnish pilots claimed 475 air victories with it while losing at most 17 planes in air-to-air combat, assuming that all unknown losses were by fighters. A very significant percentage of the Finnish claims has been confirmed by archieved Soviet sources. I'm not certain how much exactly, but someone once stated that the figure was over 60%. If we discard the rest 40% as overclaiming (definitely possible), even that gives a kill ratio of 285:17, or about 17:1. Finns lost more Brewsters than those 17, but those either crashed or were shot down by AAA. Four fighters were destroyed on ground by two bombing runs. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra: Dieppe... Kasserine Pass... the Brewster Buffalo... the grease gun... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Chupacabra, please elucidate....what was wrong with the grease gun compared with say, the Thompson SMG? I am genuinely interested in your views & are not looking to flame you for them. Thanks Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 13, 2000 Share Posted October 13, 2000 A shameless bump. Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 13, 2000 Share Posted October 13, 2000 I read in "Seven Roads to Hell" that it was very inaccurate, and almost useless except at ridiculously close ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 13, 2000 Share Posted October 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: I read in "Seven Roads to Hell" that it was very inaccurate, and almost useless except at ridiculously close ranges.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A buddy of mine was a TC for several years in the CA Guard. He told me that the were Grease Guns in the old M-60's as crew weapons in case they had to bail. He said that there was no way he'd grab it if he had to bail. He was much happier when they went to M-1's and he got an AR-15... He had a real problem with a weapon as old as his father. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" - G.W. Bush, January 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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