Black Sabot Posted March 29, 2000 Share Posted March 29, 2000 Question, O' learned ones! What effect do ricochets have on AFVs. I was playing RB this morning when my hill-top 88 bounced 4 shots off a Sherman. Well, the tank survived (it rolled out of LOS) but i wondered what effect those rounds had on optics, crew morale, etc... I can't think of a time when the AFVs i controlled survived past the first ricochet so i never had the opportunity to find out. I did a search on "ricochets" and everything i found dealt with what the rounds did after striking the tank. I'm more interested on what happens to the tank. If there is a thread on it can you steer me to it? otherwise do you know what effects there are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 29, 2000 Share Posted March 29, 2000 Ricochets can damage the tank (anything that can be damaged from the outside, gun, optics etc.), can cause the crew to button up, can rattle the crew (increasing suppression) and can cause crew casualties through internal armor flaking (spalling). When you scored four ricochets and the tank moved out of sight it's most likely that the TacAI decided to get out of harm's way before it's too late - possibly overriding any orders given to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 geezzzzz..in my CE with Iggi his sherman took five ricochets and stood on the field till the very end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Uhh... yeah, I forgot to mention: ricochets can also do... nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Don't forget Knaust, your stugg was shooting from a lower elevation. The shots were hitting the sherman at an angle, not head on. ------------------ "Don't tickle with the fingers, hit with the fist" -Heinz Guderian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 Thanx for the reply Moon, Let me ask you (or anyone else), does the actual damage to vehicle optics show up as reduced capabilities in "buttoned down" mode? I know the main gun being damaged has an immediate and undeniable effect on the tank. But, how is optic damage treated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Good question. Do damaged optics affect spotting ability when buttoned up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee: Good question. Do damaged optics affect spotting ability when buttoned up?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Here's a better question: Why can't i get icq to work? (just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 The effect of damaged optics on spotting ability would be a truly outrageous level of detail. I can't imagine the tiny, highly directional view of the gunner added much to the tank's general spotting ability, though I suppose it could be quantified. As for the main gun, no optics, no gun. They weren't equipped with iron sights or even a shotgun bead, and with the optics gone, the gunner is inside a drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: As for the main gun, no optics, no gun. They weren't equipped with iron sights or even a shotgun bead, and with the optics gone, the gunner is inside a drum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The M4 development article on CMHQ states that the M4 did have an iron sight on the main gun for quick and dirty gun laying when unbuttoned. Don't know if that was on later models though. Ethan ------------------ Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 At least in the M4 the gunner had a backup gun sight. The secondary periscope gunsight was used if the direct sight was damaged. Also the iron direct site on the turret top was kept for all versions of the M4. This sight was used by the TC to rough align the gunner to the target. My M4 articles posted at TGN try to explain this. dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Black Sabot, Here's a site that has free information videos on windows products and icq and more. http://www.pcshowandtell.com/shows.asp?product=ICQ_99b ------------------ "Don't tickle with the fingers, hit with the fist" -Heinz Guderian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted April 1, 2000 Author Share Posted April 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iggi: Black Sabot, Here's a site that has free information videos on windows products and icq and more. http://www.pcshowandtell.com/shows.asp?product=ICQ_99b <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> iggi, Thanx for the help. That post was actually a little inside joke between lee and myself. He helped me DL icq but for some reason it didn't allow us to swap files/authorization numbers. I'm going to contact the gurus at icq this weekend to find out WTF is wrong Anyways, if they can't help i'll post a "HELP" on this site (one thing i found out is this site is FULL of people willing to lend a hand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 1, 2000 Share Posted April 1, 2000 Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted April 1, 2000 Share Posted April 1, 2000 dano6: I don't think the blade sight was actually on the gun barrel (never seen one there)... rough sighting was/is for the TC to quickly put the gunner on the target, but as far as I know was never intended for actually targeting and firing. I can't find a picture of the blade sight but I don't think it was coaxial to the bore. I'm sure desperate men would resort to desperate measures, but at anything over point-blank this would amount to no sight at all, for firing purposes. Does CM bother to indicate damage to the optics, or penalize accuracy, if the back-up periscope is still operational? Enjoyed your article, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 2, 2000 Share Posted April 2, 2000 CM simulates damage to gun optics, but somewhat abstractly. To keep things manageable, we just have "gun damaged" as the result. This could be direct, like the result of a shell literally shearing off the gun barrel (yes, this happens in real tank battles!) or it could be indirect, for example the optics being so badly smashed up that the gun is left virtually useless. Some folks have asked why "gun damaged" seems to be a fairly common occurrence. The reason is that it represents damage to the entire gun and fire control system, which might be literally to the gun barrel itself but not necessarily. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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