Team Kelley strategies

[Redwolf]

Hi, folks,

waiting for 4.x to arrive, there is a scenario which I have substancial trouble mastering in singleplayer, and that is the Team Kelley variants. Let's take Team Kelley 4, that means BTRs, not BMPs and tight enemy schedule.

To remind you, you have to prevent the exit of 60% of the enemy force and you have to rescue 25% of your own force, and that's the clash.

I usually have no problems shooting up enough enemy units, together with vehicles immobilized by mines and infantry stranded without vehicles and not making it over the map side in 120 minutes, to master that part of the win.

Evacuating 25% of my own force is a substancial problem, though, at the time I disengage there are usually so many enemy units on the map that my vehicles get shot up while moving back. Either the odd ATGM gets them or ICM or air directed from infantry dropped by destroyed APCs. The helicpoters will usually be shot down by SAMs or vehicle MGs when I use them to maintain contact with the enemy formations.

Things get worse, not better, when I shorten the engagement interval,that means retreating after the first volley back the next defensive position. More movement, more sniping.

Now here are thing that improved my results:

1) Use the helicopters exclusivly for air defense (they are the only AA asset I have) and at the most to look at areas which are believed to be free of enemy units. Do not try to mainain visible contact to known enemy units.

2) Use the Bradleys exclusivly to keep the retreat route open or at most shoot at enemy tanks from 3500m or more.

3) Make a stand not in a line north-south across the map, but instead dig into one area and keep that perimeter, including all the way to the west and either north or south map edge open. A good position is the town south in the middle of the map, there is enough room to maveouver, you can shoot up anything on the high ground up to the north map edge and the terrain from there to the southwest map edge is easy to cover and has enough cover to escape there.

4) Have one artillery spotter at the west side of the map to snipe at enemy units when everyone else is long gone.

It is bejond me how to win that scenario against a human who will not drive 100 vehicles into one minefield, will avoid my strongpoints and send in all his planes at once.

[ August 16, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Coyote]

After reading your post I went back into TacOps (after just having finished playing TF Fenwick) and started playing TM Kelly.

I realized that a) I was way to tired to do anything creative and I was getting pretty much the same result you described.

I was trying to shoot 'n scoot individual vehicles and as you said, the left over infantry from each unit I killed was calling artillery and air down on me. A competent human player would probably kick the blue players butt 90% of the time because he knows what a real world commander would not, namely the scenario conditions!

I'll try this scenario again (after I get some sleep and my work done!) My general plan is:

1) After roughing up each battalion, move the entire front line back 4 - 5 kilometers. That should remove the surviving dismounted infantry from the equation and the AI will have a harder time guessing which new positions I've occupied.

2) Use the mines to guard my flanks and the helicoters to overwatch them. I don't have enough of either to control the center of the zone but if I use them on my flanks I can free up units to use where I need them most.

3) Keep putting smoke between me and the OPFOR. I have more thermals than they do so it is a net benfit to me.

4) I may use my rifle squads on the flanks as observers. This isn't as effective on this map because the terrain is so broken up. The alternative is to leave them as close to the west map edge as possible and pick them up on the way through. At least it will keep them alive and buy me a few more percentage points toward the victory conditions. They can even walk off the map given enough time.

I was also thinking it could be fun to swap the tank company for an armored cavalry troop which would be more likely to draw a mission like this anyway.

I'll let you know how it turns out. May not happen until next weekend.

"It is a good day to die, and the day is young!"

[tar]

I think the closest I ever came to winning in this one was once I managed to kill enough units (I think), but I waited one turn too long to exit and only got 24% off (one M1 was killed trying to exit) --- Grrrr!

That said, one of the keys is to not get the helos killed. They cost way too many points. The other thing that almost worked for me was to get the M1's back to the west edge of the map for a final shot before exiting -- I just waited a bit too long.

I still haven't mastered the retreat to fallback lines tactic yet. One thing that makes such a tactic harder in TacOps than in real life is the lack of much in the way of morale effects. Getting hit by a surprise attack doesn't cause confusion and indecision with the units. They can keep right on coming, which doesn't always leave you much time to pull back through the woods and then cross the open space before the bad guys get far enough through the woods to see and shoot you.

[tar]

I forgot. Another thing that worked well was to concentrate the mines in a single belt along one edge of the map. That blocks off one route and frees forces to concentrate on the remainder of the map. Of course, this only works against the AI.

[pichocki]

I tried the scenario three times last month:

First go (Kelly 1) was very easy (maybe bad AI).

Second attempt I switched all US units to German units (somewhat weaker, actually), switched the 2 helos to 5 PAH (AT helos), and added 5 Jaguar ATGMs. It was hard, but manageable: I destroyed 60% enemy then began my retreat. Because I had lost many vehicles I granted myself 5 trucks to carry away my infantry. With this "cheat" I succeeded, very narrowly though.

Third try was I stripped the AT helos which - I think I didn't end it - seemed to become a major desaster.

If anyone is interested in longer AARs for these, go to http://www.offizierschule-des-heeres.de/hptzh/forum/index.htm and have a look there (German only!).

[James Sterrett]

A number of years ago I went on a spree of playing Team Kelley and won it up to 5 without, and 6 with, a cheat; the cheat I used being to set my artillery and air support resupply to 25%. 8)

That points to the key in my experience, though: kill with artillery and airpower.

Kill the initial scout units with direct fire well forward, then pull back to your next position, leaving a network of infantry spotters splattered across the map. These guys call in artillery fire on the enemy, saving the MLRS for the larger targets. When you get 5 airstrikes, find a good target and sling them in (5 to keep the sixth slot open for more - not a consideration with v4!) Sending the air in en masse is essential to burn through the air defence.

Use your ground vehicles to kill the enemy units that leak past the wall of fire. In fact, the wall will continually creep towards the west, because you'll slowly lose spotters; but the point is not to commit them into a major engagement if you can help it. The Javelins serve as leak patrol as well, but from fixed positions.

I agree the helicopters have to be sent away fast. I'd figured out at one point exactly what had to exit, and kept it near the edge; I think it was a couple of M-1s as well as the helos.

[minmax]

Okay gang here is my unsolicited two cents on the Scenario.

1. Armor hits the scouts way far east and has cover to retreat about 1 klick.

2. Infantry is used primarily as a scout to spot the MLRS and Artie. this will break up and chew up the massed formations.

3. The Helo's are good anti-air and decent for spotting.

4. Armor and Anti-Armor should kill tanks and scoot before ATGM teams can deploy from their carriers. then back up about 2 klicks to hit the unmanned thin skinned APCs.

5. Minfields should are deployed in cheverons along typical routes of march.

6. Once enough of OPFOR has been chewed up pick the least penetrated flank and leap-frog forces to the exit points. Picking up the dismounted grunts at the end.

While this has not worked perfectly (like any combat ops would) it has yielded the best results without any cheats.

Oh yes! Aircover is good for massed formations and a breakout / scout force for the exit manuever.

Happy Gaming!

"Send more Japs" Wake Island defenders 1941.

[Carter]

Originally posted by James Sterrett:

I'd figured out at one point exactly what had to exit, and kept it near the edge; I think it was a couple of M-1s as well as the helos.[/QB]

That was my strategy. I had too much trouble retreating my armor, so I just put the necessary number on on the edge of the map. They get at least one salvo then retreat across the edge.

I felt I needed more air defense to use a mobile defense.

[Goran]

I do essentially what minmax does, except that I

a) don't use the helos much, I just let them hang a bit back out of harm's way and possibly take out an OPFOR air mission or two;

don't really try to use my vehicles against much anything else than scouts. Once one has fired, I pull it back a click or two and take up a new position mainly for observation. I use them in groups of three or four, and put two such groups in the north and two in the south. They don't fire again unless about to be discovered and attacked, or I'm in a desperate need to kill more OPFOR vehicles, or a very small group of OPFOR vehicles tries to pass them. The AFV group that fires first pulls back very far back, to near the western edge.

c) Instead of picking the infantry guys up with vehicles, I try to keep them hidden and observing, letting them be bypassed by OPFOR.

d) Once OPFOR gets close, the helos escape to the west, and the AFV group there fires one volley and scoots too.

Most of the mines are used to block a line from 120024 to 120012.

This works OK since I don't add the OPFOR helo missions at start. With those, I expect it would become a bit harder. Even without them, I tend to lose a lot of vehicles and teams, so I'm not so sure I'd be happy having me for a commander...

[James Sterrett]

"I tend to lose a lot of vehicles and teams, so I'm not so sure I'd be happy having me for a commander..."

Reminds me of a line I ran across somewhere (lost the source): "When the [Red Army] soldiers heard Zhukov would be in command of the operation, they were content, for they knew there would be victory. When they heard that Rokossovskii would be in command, they were happy, for they knew they would survive as well."