Slapdragon Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 Yep. Designing a scenario I will give them to the US just to balance the odds and provide some historic spice, but in QB I have faced them exactly once, when I was playing the Americans. The US has enough going against them to waste points on these cab drivers who cost more than almost any other artillery but are comically useless. If they would just show up for a couple of turns randomly without purchase in open terrain daylight scenarios they would be a good equalizer to counterbalane the "Axis 10%" advantage, but otherwise, someone made a mistake and thought cab rank was flown by cab drivers. Now, honestly, no matter how famous the cab rank was I am not sure how many air interdictions were served against the FEBA that is modelled in CM -- so making air overpriced and nearly worthless may be quite realistic. Most of air's work was done before the battlefield was reached. Random air and cheaper Arty may be the key though to rebalancing the US vs Axis on open maps just as it effected them historically -- rather than refiguring US infantry and tanks to put them on par cost wise with German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 how about putting this into the "How smart are fighter bombers?" - thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michlos Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 How about playing Jabos! as the Germans and see if you still think that planes suck : ) ------------------ < All gave some, some gave ALL> Owner of MiNa's CMBO Page http://www.combat-mission.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 The only thing the Allied ground forces feared more than the Luftwaffe was the Allied Air Forces. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 Clash of Eagles, last night: <possible spoiler> i noticed jabos laying waste to something i couldn't see in the road at the far end of the board. working my way up to the end of the main road I noticed German tanks in the back of the hill. I set my artillery to blast it(240mm, 105mm, 81mm for the copius infantry). the jabos took care of them, strafing bombing, fring rockets, knocking out all 4 tanks. end result: my tanks and troops go in and annihilate the infantry. the jabos knocked out or caused to be abandoned behind the hill:stug, some H something tank, 2 tigers. they took out 4 half tracks at the far road, and 2 panther IV's. (i saw only at the aar) (although they strafed once and bombed friendly lines once, but that was because i had moved to the destroyed tanks position.) allied major victory. thanks to the jabos i didn't even use my reinforcements. ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: Clash of Eagles, last night:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Your spoiler warning isn't showing because you put it in the brackets, and UBB thinks they're code. Bummer, I never played that one. I've taken out Panthers with Jabos, and one or two pretty much pays for the investment. I also just had a QB where they took out 50% of my armored assets on the 2nd turn. They came back and wiped a bunch of German HTs and ACs, but I'd rather do that myself... sigh... I was over 500m from the nearest German vehicles. A lot of times you don't appreciate the damage they're doing to the other side until late in the game, or after. Then you'll find guns and vehicles you'd never spotted, Abandoned or Knocked Out, well to the rear. [This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 10-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted October 2, 2000 Share Posted October 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: Your spoiler warning isn't showing because you put it in the brackets, and UBB thinks they're code. Bummer, I never played that one. [This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 10-01-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> sorry about that i'll be more careful in the future. but don't worry there's still the () and the extra () in that level to surprise you. ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahauschild Posted October 2, 2000 Share Posted October 2, 2000 he he...funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted October 2, 2000 Share Posted October 2, 2000 I've been curious about this for a while. When you purchase fighter bomber support do you get one airplane per fighter bomber support? That's how it appears. Unless in a scenario where the designer put in a few fighter bombers (obscenely expensive in a QB) they really don't have an effect on 99% of the battles they're in. Most of the times I've purchased them they haven't even shown up at all. When that lone plane does show up it usually decides to strafe some infantry rather than actually kill tanks. I think I've had fighter bombers kill a tank. Once. I think. As I recall when the fighter bombers did show up they pretty much stomped tanks like tin cans, providing there wasn't to much AA in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertanker Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I've had very good results from the jabos. When I use them, I tend to hide in my assembly areas, or advance very slowly, so that they have time to arrive and work over the Germans a little bit. Think of them like self-guided Nebelwerfers - they can find targets you can't see, but stay far away from the strike areas! I've seen far more bombs wasted on knocked out, but not burning, German vehicles than I have seen coming in as friendly fire. I don't know how much of this is coded into the game, but it seems like once they are around a bit, and get a feel for where the Germans are, you can move in closer proximity and not worry about friendly fire. If you are intermingled when they show up, or well into the German lines, you stand a better chance of being hit yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj. Bosco: As I recall when the fighter bombers did show up they pretty much stomped tanks like tin cans, providing there wasn't to much AA in the area.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mainly correct. There was however a difference in performance (and therefore tactics) between the different nations. - German attack aircraft (mainly Stuka) carried two bombs and a couple of 30(+?)mm ATGs. They dive bombed single tanks, and then used their guns to knock out a couple more. Fairly high one-on-one kill ratio vs tanks. - US attack aircraft (mainly P-47) in late war usually carried a couple of rockets (sometimes replaced by bombs) and had fixed MGs. Attacks were usually level flights, with low hit percentage of bombs and slightly better for rockets, so they attacked concentrations of armour instead of solitary tanks. If they missed one they might hit another, send in several aircraft and you'll score several hits. The MGs were virtually useless against armour. - British attack aircraft (Typhoon, Tempest) had 20mm autocannons and usually carried bombs, but sometimes rockets. Level runs were standard here too, so accurate bombing was rare. Strafing tanks was somewhat effective though. How does this compare to CM? - The ordnance (bombs/rockets) distribution seems right. - I haven't tested F-Bs enough to see if the effect of strafing armour is correct (i.e. if the aircraft armamnent is correct). - Bomb hits seem to be about equal for all F-Bs, regardless of nationality. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Petrovsky Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I don't know if you forget about close air support entirely. Yes it is a gamble because they might not show up and if they get some AA fire they don't seem to come back. But I've had some success with planes when on the defense. Basically in the first 3-5 turns of an attack the defender is just sitting in hiding waiting for the oncoming attack. During this time your planes can be very effective in stripping your opponent of his armor and break up his attack all while you aren't losing anything. Plus you take away the chance of your planes attacking your own troops because you are on the other side of the map in hiding. I was defending as the axis in a PBEM game and my plane took out a Sherman, 2 armored cars, and some other vehicle I can't remember, all this before the enemy even got close to my front lines. In the end, however, I seemed to be short on men when his final assault came and I really could have used a few more platoons of infantry instead of the 300pts I blew on the part time air attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: Fighter=bombers are worthless bird dogs flown by woodchucks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You know, if you wanted me to make some pictures all you had to do was ask. =) Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 4, 2000 Author Share Posted October 4, 2000 Please Kitty -- do us the honors -- but be careful about defaming poor woodchucks or birddogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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