Lindan Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 After being quite disappointed by Reach for the Stars 2 I was looking for anther 4X-Game and stumbled over Space Empires IV by Shrapnel Games. Online reviews were quite positive but as I tend to listen more to the people's opinions on this board (stupid me! ) I thought I'd ask if anyone here played the game and has something to say about it. Thanks beforehand. <font color=red>Lindan</font> ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Hi Lindan What amazing timing. For the last several days I have been persona non-grata over on that forum because of my complaints of the game being incomplete, and the AI being absolutely mediocre. At this time, I cannot recommend it. However, there is a beta patch due out ~12-19-00 with a list of fixes as long as my arm, so the opinion may change after that time, and I will gladly share mine again. There are at least two others from this board whom I have stumbled across over there, so perhaps they will comment as well. Yours, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Schmidt Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Hi, i played SE4 like a maniac. It´s amazing good, for the first hours - and then, you will recognize that it is still not finished. No Challenge for the AI. The AI is full of mistakes, doesn´t use all components you are able to use, does attack and behave stupid, the Diplomacy is still not finished - so nearly useless. If you like to find out the depth of this game, it´s the money worth, if you want to have a full game, with a lot of challenge, you still have to wait, till they fixed the AI and all the other stuff - as they promised. For myself, i´m playing CM again, still happy about the amazing AI and long time challenge. Greetings from Germany Jochen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Schmidt Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Giggle, hi Freyland, posted at the same time as you did. Funny thing to see the folks on all the hardcore-gaming-forums. Heartfull greetings to all Jochen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 14, 2000 Author Share Posted December 14, 2000 Jochen: where did you get your copy? Some place in Germany where you can get it? Or Shrapnel-Games only? ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lindan: Online reviews were quite positive ... I thought I'd ask if anyone here played the game and has something to say about it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I've got it & love it! I passed on Reach for the Stars 2, one reason being that it sounded like they decided to avoid "depth" in order to allow a quicker game that would be playable online, which I wasn't interested in. Space Empires: IV has definitely met my desire for "depth"! However, as others have posted, "depth" is a double-edged sword, in that the AI has trouble taking advantage of all the options, too. I agree that I found the Diplomacy disappointing, but I also agree that the support, so far, has been very good, and they have a history of sticking with Space Empires and continuing to release updates. I pretty much agree with both the CGO and Gamespot reviews (except that Gamespot lowered the overall "score" too much, IMHO, for the limited sound and graphics in a turn-based strategy game of this type). (And, while I have not yet tried it, my understanding about PBEM is like Gamespot's, and differs from CGO's, in that the simultaneous-move PBEM game is where the players send their turn to a host who resolves the turn and sends the results back, and that in a sequential-move PBEM game the file is passed among all players.) As you probably know, they have a demo available for download, and they've sold out of at least one "print" run and had to order more CD's. Also, FWIW, Stars! Supernova Genesis, another space 4X game I'm looking forward to, has reportedly now been pushed back to July, 2001. (edited to fix the S!SG date) [This message has been edited by AbnAirCav (edited 12-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 I plaay SE IV also but have a bit of a different take on the AI. While it maay be a bit slow it is kicking my rather large hind parts, thank you very much. It plays a LOT better that Reach for the Stars, IMHO. So an excellent game and Like CM is available online only st Schrapnel games. Lindan, play the demo, also available from Schrapnel and form your own opinion. I think you'll like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Schmidt Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Hi Lindan, only by Shrapnelgames.com this game your copy is aviable. - In other words, not in stores, only over the internet. Greetings Jochen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoop Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 I have SE4 but I don't like it very much. I got sick of the AI. I hope they can patch it up. I am looking forward to Stars Supernova, http://www.crisium.com/sn/snnews.htm and Masters of Orion 3. http://moo3.quicksilver.com/ [This message has been edited by Snoop (edited 12-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Fantastic game. The support from the developers is as good as BTS in every respect. This game is the most detailed and customizable 4x game ever, period. Each, and every component in the game as well as the AI can be customized. It is turnbased, something MOO3 will not be. And it has tactical ship-to-ship combat, something that Stars:Supernova will not. Both factor are very important to me. Sure, the AI can be improved and it is being improved but IMHO it has some of the best AI I have ever seen in a 4x space game. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Just ordered it for christmas. I hope the AI improves, but then again the AI in MOO 1 & 2 and Pax Imperia was no einstein either. I have to get my yearly installment of 4x. MOO 3 looks really cool, but it is at least a year off. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Bought the game and found the AI lacking to the extent that I can't recommend it. One reason I even considered buying it was because of how incredible CM is and I thought I would try and support another indy developer. My impression is that they haven't realized that what might be OK for a $20 shareware game they used to make isn't OK for a $40 game they now sell. The excuse for the AI is that it's a work in progress. My response: please do most of the work BEFORE the game is released. [This message has been edited by Stealth (edited 12-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarnese Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 The AI is just as good as in any other 4X game of it's type. However that isn't good enough for us and we plan to constantly improve it. Almsot every reviewer I respect has spoken highly on our game and most of the gamers have as well. The game AI as shipped, again, is quite good but as with any game we want to make it better. ------------------ Richard Arnesen Shrapnel Games www.shrapnelgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Hey Madmatt or KwazyDog, Just a thought that you might want to lock down this thread. The good/bad AI partisans are never going to agree and this is going to get ugly. IMHO, this can be discussed on the Shrapnel games website forum where a lively debate is already ensuing on this topic. I personally would just as soon leave it on the Shrapnel site. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 15, 2000 Author Share Posted December 15, 2000 Stealth: My intention was to get some input regarding an interesting game. It was not my goal and never will be, to instill a flame-fest. I found the opinions offered here helpful and I ordered the game yesterday. cheers! ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Lindan, Sorry if you took it that way. Any flame fest that might result would have nothing to do with your question but with the strong opinions of those answering the question. I think your question was legit and it makes sense to ask what people who like CM think about it. I believe some of the same strong advocates (myself included) on the Shrapnel site are also posting here. My thought is to keep the flame fest over on Shrapnel. [This message has been edited by Stealth (edited 12-15-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 16, 2000 Author Share Posted December 16, 2000 Stealth: no problem. I just didn'T want to be misunderstood. cya at Shrapnel! ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCurt Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I beta'd ol' SE3 way way back when. SE4 I can only afford the demo ( so far ) but from what I've seen the improvements are impressive. The AI was never very bright in combat. I'm certain Malfador will address these issues. Like BTS they're some of the good guys, gamers that make games for gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Olesen Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I see you have already ordered the game, but FWIW here's my opinion. I played SE3 a lot and loved it. I tried the SE4 demo and hated it. Probably a severe case of disappointed expectations I do not like the user interface of SE4. Way too much mousework and cumbersome controls. I still follow some discussions on the game (on egroups, there is an SE4 list) (haven't quite given up on the game yet). From this I can surmise that the game is probably too complex, in the way that it offers more options than it can comfortably balance out in testing and in programming of the AI. On the other hand, this is also an appeal to some. This probably implies that the AI becomes a pushover after a while, it might also unbalance multiplayer - someone finds a strategy that cannot be countered. But then, you can always change the data files (most of them are customisable) if you have the time and interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I've been mucking about with SEIV for about a month now, and here's my take: The good part is that just about everything (and I do mean everything!) in the game is modifiable by the player. Bad part is, that it needs it! As the game ships there are many little mistakes (not necessarily bugs, just errors) that need fixing. Worst of all is that the AI is much too passive and that the other races all have the same personality --- bland with extra vanilla icing. The game is being done by one man, and from what I've read he's doing his best to fix things as he goes, so I still have hope that SEIV will improve --- till then, I've put it on hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Having read a few good reviews, I checked out the SE4 demo, and I was pretty disappointed. They all said stuff about the game being amazingly complex, and I just didn't see it. At all. Having to worry about logistics was kinda nice, but didn't make it all that deep. And then it hit me: The combat parts of the game are wonderfully complex, with myriad options for various sorts of weapons and such, each with their advantages and disadvantages, and many with special effects, making thoughtful ship and fleet design an important part of the game. Or would, if the AI weren't such a sucker in tactical combat. As is, the complexity there is wasted if you don't have the patience to play a several hundred turn game by email. Unfortunately, the other parts of the game, the expanding and building and research, aren't nearly so complex. There's a few basic types of planetary facilities, and a small number of either absolutely necessary or completely unnecessary facilities with special effects. So there's very little to actually decide about how you want to develop your colonies. The star systems have way too many habitable planets, imo, and the choice about where to colonize is easy: everything you can within range. Once you've conquered a few people, there's some choice about matching race to atmosphere to get more space for building on the planet, but it doesn't really matter, because by that time, you should be out-producing everyone else anyway. Planetary populations, which you can move around to get maximum growth for your empire, unfortunately, just don't matter that much, giving you a small bonus to the productivity of your planetary facilities, so you might as well not bother with that part of the game. The tech tree, alas, is a tree, not the interconnected tangle that made Civilization work so well, letting you research one type of technology way ahead of the rest and gain a decisive advantage. Which might break the game, if it weren't already broken by not needing any sort of advantage to crush the AI in tactical combat. That said, I still enjoyed playing the demo, despite being easy and shallow, and it'll go right beside the Horse and Musket demo on my hard drive, for when I'm feeling like playing something kinda fun and way too easy. And so I can't entirely recommend against buying the game, but I'd suggest playing the demo and seeing if the AI gives you a bit of a challenge. -John [This message has been edited by John Hough (edited 12-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarnese Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 No flames felt on my part guys. And yes I agree let's keep this on our site, I don't want to fill BTS's forums with our arguments . Thanks... ------------------ Richard Arnesen Shrapnel Games www.shrapnelgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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