For My Military History class

[minmax]

Okay gang I have a special request of all the Veterans.

Please define the following words for me in your own words.

Tactics

Strategy

Logistics

Tactical

Strategic

Any real-life examples to add to your definition are more than welcome.

Please be aware that I am going to use these in my High School class.

Thanks,

Later I will share how my kids defined the terms based on their readings and perspectives

[Oswald]

In my own words? Okay!

Tactics: The methods, techniques, and little problem solving things you were trained on, and how to you personally use them to solve problems within the 0 - 1000 meter range.

Strategy: The overall scheme of a major engagement, usually involving a large piece of land or major spectrum of the battlefield. (i.e. fighting for France, or achieving/maintaining air superiority)

Logistics: The system by which you move support and material goods to resupply/support your troops. The way you help your people out (not necessarily the supplies themselves).

Tactical: Usually the battlefield level of combat. Actual combat between combatants versus...

Strategic: Which describes the fight over the infrastructure of an enemy. [Edit added:] You can also think of it as the battle over the will and means of the enemy to fight. Bombing downtown Moscow with a Minuteman III would be strategic warfare, in that you've really hit Ivan in the face.

Think of Tactical and Strategic this way: Tactical engagement would be battalion vs battalion, where Strategic engagement would involve bombing factories in an attempt to wear down the infrastructure of the enemy. Tough concept to get, but they are two different planes of existence.

Hope this helps,

Oswald

Remember Tactical Air Command and Strategic Air Command?

[Edit: Added another thought. 27 Jan 02]

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Oswald ]</p>

[Stoffel]

I think it was General Franks who explains the difference between tactical and strategical forces/actions in Clancy's desert storm in a very good way

[Gyrene]

Tactics The "plays" you use in the field to be in a better position than your opponents and to keep your butt alive.

Strategy The plans that high ranking officers make for your future that you have no input in and little real knowledge of.

Logistics Marvelling at how they moved so much junk so far and so quickly, and at how much gear you need to play war.

Logistics also involve the difference between MRE's again or a hot meal.

Tactical The word you don't like to hear new Lieutenants use. Hope that by the time you need them all your Tactical moves have long been well rehearsed.

Strategic If you get to hear this word, it means you are going on a very long trip somewhere and you'll have some serious packing in your near future along with a lot of hurry up and wait.

Gyrene

[James Sterrett]

Tactics & Tactical: Tactics is battlefighting. The tactical level of war typically involves units of up to brigade, sometimes divisional level. Tactics is concerned with accomplishing the missions handed down by the operational level of war.

Strategy, Grand strategy, & Strategic: Strategy is warfighting. Grand strategy arranges the political, economic, andd social preconditions for continuation of a war. Grand strategy translates political objectives into broad courses of action. Strategy is concerned with the broad scope of the employment of forces in a theater, translating grand strategic overall intents into desired campaigns. This typically extends down to the level of theaters and Army Groups.

Operations and Operational: The operational level of war translates between strategy and tactics. It translates the desired campaigns of strategy into a series of battles orchestrated to create overall campaign victory. Operations is the concern of Army Groups down through Corps and sometimes divisions.

Logistics: Logistics covers the critical but unloved and boring services that ensure that the rest of the military can accomplish its tasks. Without logistics, all of your beans, bullets, POL, medical supplies, etc ad nauseam are left sitting uselessly at the factory.

Edit: added another definition and examples.

Definition by Aleksandr Svechin, who coined the term "operational art" (operativnoe iskusstvo) on the basis of Moltke's term "operativ" (quoted form <u>Strategiia</u>, 1928): 'All the levels of war are closely interrelated: tactics makes the steps of which operational leaps are assembled; strategy points out the path.' Tactics is battle-fighting; Operational Art is choosing, ordering, and arranging the battles to achieve a strategic goal.

Example:

A great example of the difference between a tactical and an operational point of view is provided by von Mellenthin's book Panzer Battles and its famed descriptions of the 48th Panzer Corps's defense of the Chir River line against the Soviet 5th Tank Army. 48th Panzer's tactical successes against the half-strength 5th Tank Army are well-described in the book. What is not explained is of greater importance. 48th Panzer's tactical successes must be seen against 5th Tank Army's mission: pinning 48th Panzer Corps so that it could not interfere with the Middle Don Operation. That operation was a success: 49 Axis divisions wiped off their order of battle, the the Italian 8th Army and Army Detachment Hollidt shattered, and the Axis driven from the middle Don, in significant part because 48th Panzer Corps was very successfully fighting the wrong battle.

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: James Sterrett ]</p>

[The Commissar]

Originally posted by minmax:

Please be aware that I am going to use these in my High School class.

Thanks,

Later I will share how my kids defined the terms based on their readings and perspectives

Well, the other guys already defined the words you asked for multiple times, all of them quite good definitions, so I wont bother.

However, I would be VERY interested to know what subject this is for? It sounds like I would have loved to have you as a teach. I remember that the farthest my History teacher went to explain the strategies behind a war (WW2 being the case in point) was how the Allies coordinated landing at Normandy. The largest conflict in recorded human history took us a whole day to do

[Phil Squair]

I would offer these definitions for your high school students.

Tactics -- The ability to get your hand up your girlfriend's shirt without getting slapped.

Strategy -- Planning your date to ensure you and your girlfriend are left alone in the dark at some point toward the end of the evening.

Logistics -- Making sure your older brother visiting from college remembers to buy you and your girlfriend beer.

:cool:

[Web]

Where sthis course at my high school?!? Goddamn penny-pinching superintendant... :mad:

[Stoffel]

Funny you mentioned this school story

I did exams in history,most part of it was 20th century,world war 2 till 1985 about US and germany

I missed one question and got a 9.6 for my final test:)

I knew more on WW2 than my teacher did

which often presented me the possibility to make the fool out of her.

making me the hero of my class

[The Commissar]

Originally posted by Stoffel:

I knew more on WW2 than my teacher did

which often presented me the possibility to make the fool out of her.

LOL! I know the feeling!! My teachers soon started to refer to me as the "history professor" and checked any points they were trying to make against my knowledge to make sure they had their facts right

All this despite the fact that I probably know only about .005% of what some of the grogs on this forum know!

[Jeff Gilbert]

I really can not add anything of value to what everyone else has already written. However, it is nice to see that there are still some teachers who are willing to go further than the few pages devoted in the "new" history books.

I actually had an high school history teacher [Mr Rodriguez] back in the early '70s who encouraged us to set up and play war-games. He went so far as to help us start a wargame club and devoted an entire empty classroom for us. The only thing he wanted in return was a basic written report after the game outlining the historical battle and the how and why we fought it differently.

[Saber 12]

Jeff Gilbert brings up a good idea. For a high school class you may want to bring in Axis & Allies for a macro view of modern warfare. This would give them a visual of "tactics" used to fight a battle (ok-really simplified, I know). Also, they could see the "strategy" used to fight a war. A & A could also illustrate logistics on a macro level. Of course TACOPS if available for Tactics 101 and it has plenty of tools for battlefield logistics & Combat Service Support.

FM 3-0, Operations (formerly FM 100-5) has some great doctrinal terms & it's online at www.adtdl.army.mil too. Just my 2 cents.

LP out.

[minmax]

Hey thanks everyone the kids have really gotten a kick out of this stuff

As far as hands on labs they have done a logistics lab that drove them up a wall

For tactical vs. strategic I will let them build a plan and brief it then apply it using tac-ops over the LAN and data vid

Principal and others are going to umpire ought to be a real hoot

Also plan to set up a paint ball outing if the principal goes for it

Well back to work

Thanks again all!

Semper Erectus!

[The Commissar]

[mutter under breath] ...No one ever gave me no stinkin' paintball tournament and no tacops either...[/mutter under breath]

Seriously though, I envy your students. What subject is this far, anyway?

[Stoffel]

If the principal is a worried man and if he sees potential dangers of hurting people(which might happen in a very militaristic game like paintball)you might have a better chance with lasergaming

just as fun and it doesnt hurt when you got hit

would you be so kind to post the results of the tacops game here or on the list please?

I am very curious about those results

[minmax]

Well,

The subject is special topics: Military History. It is a weighted course so students gotta do lots of reading and writing and the test I give are a BEAR. Matter of fact the class averages reflect that kids don't think I was serious about the difficutly of the course but they will now.

As far as paintballing vs. laser tag I prefer they paintball. I want the pain to drive home the point that combat is not fun or glorious. The thesis for the whole course is What is the heaviest weight a human can carry?

the answer is "A dead Marine" it drives home the fact that war is about death and destruction. Just like any good war movie is really an anti-war movie. I want the kids to learn and enjoy the course but always keep in mind the dirty nature of war.

Well gang,

Have a great weekend and thanks!

"It is well that war is so terrible lest we grow too fond of it" This is an easy one who said it?

[Stoffel]

Have them watch german 50's movie Die Brucke at the end of the test.

Its a very good anti war movie!

I saw it in high school too,left a good impression with me.

[Phil Squair]

Originally posted by minmax:

"It is well that war is so terrible lest we grow too fond of it" This is an easy one who said it?

Robert E. Lee during the Union charge up Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg.

[wbs]

In college I was fortunate enough to get into a history class that studied Patton vs. Rommel vs. Montgomery. The professor was a big wargamer (Avalon Hill) and would use gameboards and game pieces to illustrate various points. It was the most fun course I ever took. As I was also an avid wargamer (to my parent's dismay since it interfered with my grades, in their opinion) the professor and I soon became ardent rivals on the cardboard field of battle (any battle!). I got an "A" for the course (Hmm, I wonder why?) (-: