Guest aaronb Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 We've all seen the video: guy steals M60 main battle tank, wreaks havoc with it in downtown something-or-other (including my favourite scene where he buzz-saws the tank right throuhgh a large motorhome lengthways), then gets hung up on a concrete freeway median. A couple of heroic police officers jump on the turret, open the hatch, and shoot him when he refuses to acknowledge them. So my question: can tank crews not lock the hatches to prevent this from happening in battle? Or did the thief forget to lock-up once inside? No guessing, as marks will be subtracted for wrong answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 The city was San Diego, California. I have a friend that was originally from there. He was here in Illinios when it happened, but some of his family was still there when it happened, and matter of fact, his brother called him up and told him to turn on the national news. ------------------ "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." --Jedi Master Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 The spot where he lost a track is 5 miles from my house. That maniac was headed downtown when he got disabled. From what I remember, the tank hatch was actually locked down. One of the officers was a vet, and knew how to get the thing open (although it took him a minute or so). I was watching live, as they opened the hatch, shot him up, and dragged him out. Sadly he was only wearing pajama pants, which fell to his ankles exposing WAAYY more than I ever wanted to see of a man who was bleeding to death. One of the ugliest specacles that I have ever seen on live tv, in the early afternoon. But anyway, that tank was "locked" in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 I heard bolt cutters were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 Well I was in service in a Leopard II Batallion and know what I´m talking about. Tank crews can easily lock up all hatches and there is no way in the world to get in, except perhaps using a cutting torch or a large caliber can opener I guess that the thief simply forgot to lock the hatch, that´s why they got him. Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DesertFox: a large caliber can opener I guess that the thief simply forgot to lock the hatch, that´s why they got him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks, DF, for the definitive answer. Presumably, WWII MBT's had similar arrangements. I particularly like the can-opener analogy. Lanzfeld: Bolt cutters came up on sci.military.moderated in the context of an external padlock (to prevent theft or access). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 WW2 and modern MBTs can be locked down such that no-one can get inside unless they have an oxy-acetylene torch or some such device. That guy in the M60 simply didn't close the hatch properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 WW2 and modern MBTs can be locked down such that no-one can get inside unless they have an oxy-acetylene torch or some such device. And there are also stories that sometimes in the early war hatches of Soviet tanks were locked from outside... - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 *chuckle*.. As Tommi points out there were a few exceptions though.. Early-war Soviet tanks were notorious for either: a) having faulty closing mechanisms or being openable from the outside.. It wasn't common after mid-42 though so I left it out so as not to confuse people. Good spot Tommi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted April 28, 2000 Share Posted April 28, 2000 I was an M1A1 tanker with the US Army, and have actually heard about this story. Here's my recollections on what happened: Padlocks are normally used to secure the loader's hatch (on M1's and M60's anyway) when not in use. They can be locked from inside the turret when in use and NOBODY can unlock it from outside without a torch. I think that the driver's hatch (in the hull) was open, and THAT's how he got in, since the loader's hatch was still padlocked (and he didn't have the key anyway). After stealing the tank, he closed and locked the driver's hatch - and forgot to lock down the loader's hatch from INSIDE to secure the tank! Once he threw the track, the police jumped on and cut the padlock off the loader's hatch, thereby exposing the guy via the now-open turret (you can reach the driver fairly easily through the turret if the turret is traversed so that the main gun is over the back deck). Had the guy locked down the loader's hatch, it would have been hours or days before they'd have gotten him out! Of course, on the M1, there's a fire extinguisher handle on the hull, that if pulled, disables that engine and fires off some halon bottles in the engine compartment. How's THAT for an easy way to disable an M1!? Of course, you still need to get right up to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted April 29, 2000 Share Posted April 29, 2000 I knew they used bolt-cutters!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted April 29, 2000 Share Posted April 29, 2000 As a former M-60 crewman I might have some insite. It is possible to open the loaders hatch on an M-60 if it is locked from inside AND the periscope is not in place. A dextrious individual with a thin arm can reach through the periscope port and unlock the hatch. Naturally, in combat, you'd have the periscope in place, but 99% of the time in peacetime we never had ours in place. We refered to this procedure as "combat locking" the hatch. It is what we did if we left the tank for a while, and didn't have a pad-lock for the hatch. Sgt. Zamo "B" Co. 4th TkBn, 4th MarDiv, FMF, USMCR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted April 30, 2000 Share Posted April 30, 2000 As a former M-60 tanker I can expand a little on Zamo's comments. The periscope cover on the loader's hatch is held shut by a spring loaded latch. Usually a few whacks on the cover with a hammer are all that are needed to spring the latch. Then it is a simple matter to stick your hand in and pop the hatch. Against a fully manned tank this would not be an easy task. The drivers hatch on m-60's with active IR driver's night sights had the same type of periscope cover so even if you din't have the key to the lock on the loader's hatch you could still get into those tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 Zamo and Harold: Exactly (I think we're in total agreement here on this point) - you can do the same thing on an M1 The point I was making was that the way the cops got into the tank (I remember the article) was by using bolt cutters on the loader's hatch. That was an unusual sitation, since the hatch wouldn't have been secured with a padlock like that during combat Bottom line: In CM, it should be darned near impossible for infantry to enter a buttoned vehicle. Anyone disagree with this? I'm not as familiar with the mechanics of WWII era hatches, so I may be assuming too much by extrapolating from my own experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted May 2, 2000 Share Posted May 2, 2000 I agree Mannheim, Buttoned tanks are buttoned. Perhaps a modifier of about 2% to 5% chance of opening a hatch if the crew was too dumb to button the hatch, or if the TC had been killed by a sniper...There should be a "slim" chance that a hatch isn't secured, but it should be SLIM. Zamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 The hatches on the sides of our AMLs were locked in place using padlocks. It did the job. Not that anyone would want to steal one... NTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 AML's = Arc Macro Language (Stupid IT joke). Some kind of landing craft I assume... Our sponson boxes were also locked with padlocks, so in theory, the infantry could still jump on board and steal your tools, food and water! I know first hand of a story of tanks in Desert Storm (from a former army buddy), where one used its coax MG to knock the infantry off of a wingman. "Hey buddy, scratch my back for me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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