TBlaster Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 I have run into several situations now were anti aircraft guns are the perfect tank killers. I have two good examples: A Panther G tank was getting hit by a 40mm AA gun in the front armor area continously. After about 40 seconds the Panther's gun was destroyed, shortly thereafter it was immobilized by it. Different battle with 1.04 patch...my Super Pershing was getting hit in the front by a quad 20mm AA gun. Same thing...after 1 turn it was immobilzed and then shortly after the gun was destroyed. Throughout the whole time I only had sound contacts to the AA gun too Is this realistic? Can 20 mm AA kill the main gun on a super pershing that easily? Thanks, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 Can you imagine being in a tank being rained on by a quad 20mm? That's the beauty of those weapons -- they throw out so much ammo that sooner or later there's bound to be a critical hit, and at anything other than point blank range they're hard as hell to spot too. I just had a Churchill immobilized by one of the little bastards (damn you, Mk IV!!!), so I feel your pain Fortunately the crew of that particular gun is now enjoying a cuppa with my boys. ------------------ Sounds like 100% weapons-grade bolonium to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 If an AA gun can tear up an aircraft, it seems reasonable that it could damage the main gun, wheels, and treads on a tank. -Andrew ------------------ Throw me a frickin' smiley, people! Your one-stop-shop for gaming news is www.SiegersPost.com ! Hit it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 1. the 40mm gun ain't no peashooter. Sure it can blow a track of any vehicle. 2. In a recent PBEM, I managed to empty a quad flak against a normal Sherman. No damage whatsoever. ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: I just had a Churchill immobilized by one of the little bastards (damn you, Mk IV!!!), so I feel your pain <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You too? I don't know if it was a 20mm or a 40mm, but Mark IV did the same thing to my last Sherman in a scenario, and I still don't know where the gun is. I might add that there's no way he's destroyed it, it's just immobilized. AA guns aren't tank killers, but they certainly can make them stationary gun platforms. My understanding is that tank treads and running gear and such were rather a weak link in the 'invincible battlefield behemoth' thing. A fact I wish I'd remembered when I continued to advance into Mark IV's fire, dismissing it as 'inconsequential, it's not going to knock out the tank...' ------------------ After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 I see some libelous comments taking place here behind my back. Some Facts: 1) The 20mm flak (single barrel) is very cool. 2) It was a likely thing to be found around the front, thanks to Allied air supremacy (I do try to keep a historically plausible mix). 3) It is an excellent bargain. I think of it as the German .50 cal., with 1001 uses around the home or office. 4) F. Babra, you got a lot more than that immobile now, buddy. And you won't have any trouble finding them in all that fog, either, as I have provided tikki torches for you all the way through the swamp so your crews can find the way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 I'm still in shock... My boys, my brave boys.... Damn, damn you, Mk IV... <choke>... ------------------ Sounds like 100% weapons-grade bolonium to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 The 20mms automatic weapons are in a league of their own and ahead of their times in the ground role. What people dont appreciate is the suppressive effect of multiple explosions around a target. You could probably get used to the cracks of bullets going by but rapid explosions/splinters and the involuntary flinching kept heads down. the fuzes had to be super sensitive (to get aircraft skins) and firing them into any vegetation would detonate them. The Germans built 10's of thousands of these things and used alot of other captured auto/HE weapons. Todays IFV vehicles all mount similar weapons (with anti-IFV/AAA capability of course). Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3) It is an excellent bargain. I think of it as the German .50 cal., with 1001 uses around the home or office.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> *Infomercial Mode™ on* "...and it's so easy and convenient! I don't know how I lived without my U.S. Army 20mm flak gun! The powerful yet managable rounds make opening cans a snap! My neighbor almost never bothers me about wanting to borrow my lawn mower anymore! And with my flak gun safe in the garage, I never have to worry about German World War II aircraft from bombing or strafing my house!" "That's right, folks. Just think about all the amazing household uses for your 20mm flak gun. Order in the next ten minutes, and you'll recieve a free order of ammunition, for those of you who really love their 20mm flak gun." -Andrew ------------------ Throw me a frickin' smiley, people! Your one-stop-shop for gaming news is www.SiegersPost.com ! Hit it! [This message has been edited by Mirage2k (edited 08-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by :USERNAME:: What people dont appreciate is the suppressive effect of multiple explosions around a target<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, I appreciate it. I like to zoom in on MGs and nasty PIATs and watch the little explosions dance around their toes. Frankly, it was an absurd thing to point at a Churchill, even from the flank, but it's what I had on the scene. Necessity is a mother... As some would say, DAMN me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 20, 2000 Share Posted August 20, 2000 Let's put it this way... In those 40 seconds that 2cm FlaKVierling probably sent over 800 rounds at your tank. ( 200 per barrel). With 800 rounds SOMETHING is gonna get hit and destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 I would bet FlakQuads were used as follows: Fire one barrel till tracers strike area, open up with all four. This saves ammo of course. Anyone know the ratio of HE to AP in those things? Against a stationary lone tank, a quad flak would blind the vehicle as long as it could fire. The impact/flashes/smoke/sparks could make the vehicles ability to respond negligible. But once it started to swing the turret in your direction might test the gunners nerves.. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emos Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 Heh....plus they just SOUND so intimidating too! (Kudos to BTS for the battle sounds) The climatic battle scene in Saving Private Ryan has a 20mm flak tearing into soldiers attempting to knock out a Tiger (or was it a Panther?). Very wicked in the anti-personnel role it appears... Speaking of intimidating sounds, is there a WAV file in CM of a Stuka in a dive pattern? Where the Stukas obsolete by 1944? ------------------ "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" --Dr. Strangelove-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 Yes, the Stuka was obselete by 1944, although they were still in use in the anti tank role and were used right up until the end of the war, the last action that I can think of was in Budapest to secure the airport to permit the landing of a releif force for the city's garrison (who got shafted and handed over to the soviets anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 It was a Tiger,Emos,(I just watched it yesterday). That 20mm ripped those unfortunate souls right up, didn't it? ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! [This message has been edited by Splinty (edited 08-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Don't forget that multiple hits in the same area softens any armour. The Norwegians used regular MMGs as ATGs, since that is what was available. It took a fair amount of rounds, but then it penetrated the armour of any German tank sent at them. The only problem was ammo supply and for the gunner to stay alive long enough. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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