Invulnerable passengers?

[Scipio]

On a foggy morning, I hide my 75mm Infantery Gun, let that Sherman Jumbo pass by and try to get it from behind. Well, by gunners hit the turret two times, but couldn't break through the armor. That's okay, I was only hoping for a lucky punch. But I don't understand: the mounted MG-team should take heavy casualities by shrappnells and I guess panic, because they can't escape fom the fast driving tank... but they're fresh and recovered.

How I already said : passengers should take very high casualities when the vehicel is hit.

[Thermopylae]

Most likely you expereienced Horribly bad luck. tm.

[Samhain]

Sometimes I think Horribly Bad Luck is mathematically modelled according to strict formulas in CM

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I rode a tank, held a general's rank

When the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank.

--Rolling Stones

[David Aitken]

Passengers usually jump off a tank if HE lands anywhere nearby or a sniper takes potshots at the commander. AP is another matter though – it doesn't create much shrapel, and might well ricochet off the turret with the passengers barely noticing. Sure, they'd hear it, but battlefields are noisy and it wouldn't necessarily affect them. If you shot HE at the back of the turret, that's another matter.

David

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

Passengers usually jump off a tank if HE lands anywhere nearby ... AP is another matter though ...

If you shot HE at the back of the turret, that's another matter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The 75mm IG has no AP, but HC and HE. HC hits on the turret would in Real Life have roughly the same effect as hand grenades WRT the passengers on the back. (Concussion and fragmentation.)

If this isn't modeled it's clearly a bug.

Cheers

Olle

[Polar]

Actually, no... that would be an oversight.

A bug is a poorly executed feature.

Joe

[Bullethead]

I have noticed invulnerable passengers also. See my post about the AI Targeting Passengers that I posted last night.

The problem seems restricted to tank passengers because truck passengers DO take damage from smallarms aimed at them instead of at the vehicle (which is a separate problem--I'd usually rather shoot at the vehicle). OTOH, I can't recall ever seeing tank riders take damage or morale penalties when THEY are targeted instead of the tank.

This seems rather strange. When you shoot at the TANK, its passengers often take collateral damage, almost always bail, and are usually freaked out, even if it's just 1 sniper bullet at the TC. But none of this happens much or at all when you aim at the passengers themselves, even with an IG's HE round. Further, the tank doesn't seem much affected by collateral damage from fire at the passengers. The only times I've seen this happen is MG fire from the front causing the TC to button from its grazing effect.

On top of this, often MGs and IGs will target the passengers instead of the tank, and instead of other infantry in cover right beside the tank. Apparently the AI thinks that tank riders have a very high exposure rating, making them attractive targets. But as noted above, in actuality they seem to be almost invulnerable.

So Scipio, I'm wondering if your IG was really targeting the tank. I have great difficulty in making them do so--they like to switch to the passengers instead. And when they do, both tank and passenger seem unaffected.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[-Havermeyer-]

Those were my passengers, fortunately they were carrying the Frag-Bounce scroll (found in the house, under the rug).

Actually, Scipio, I was surprised they continued to ride the beast through another shot. And I don't think they even took a casualty! Maybe all twelve were piled up in front (facing your other 75 mm gun).

[Guest Madmatt]

Bullethead,

I have seen your posts on this and perhaps we are seeing different things as I have often seen passengers on tanks ripped apart from smalls that was and was NOT aimed at them. I even saw a HQ command team riding on the back of a StuG III shredded as the StuG drove across the Line of Fire of a friendly MG42 that was opening up behind them.

Charles has said that CM fully models small arms/MG damage to passengers but I will run some tests when I get the chance and share with you what I find.

Madmatt

[Bullethead]

Madmatt said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Charles has said that CM fully models small arms/MG damage to passengers but I will run some tests when I get the chance and share with you what I find.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I believe you. But I'm still concerned over the tendency of various weapons to aim at passengers rather than the vehicle, even when they can destroy the vehicle or, if they don't, the vehicle will certainly destroy them once they reveal themselves by shooting at passengers.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[Guest Madmatt]

<<OK, I believe you. But I'm still concerned over the tendency of various weapons to aim at passengers rather than the vehicle, even when they can destroy the vehicle or, if they don't, the vehicle will certainly destroy them once they reveal themselves by shooting at passengers.>>

Thats part of what I going to test!

Madmatt