Titan Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 Just a want to get some feed back from others who have played this battle on there experince with the hellcats I am currently pplaying a PBEM battle of this and my opponent is a good player so im not taking anything away from him.I am playing as the german player and on turn ten i got my remaing stug and the tiger into position on the opposite hill on the german side ready to echange shots in anticipaton of there arrival. On the beginning of turn ten my tiger fired first,with its shot going wildly astray second shot was fired from a hellcat on scored a direct hit brewing it up. My thinking was that if i put a good distance between them my tiger would have the advantage as per istance= hellcats gun less effective aginst the tigers heavy armour at that range which was 900mtrs approx,so i was somewhat suprised when the tiger meet its dimise with the first shot ,as i did play as allies against the AI some time ago and recall the hellcats cleaning up in a similar fashion. No need to mention the stug survived abit longer getting off about 3 rounds ,with 2 missing wildly and another taking out a hellcat Is it just one of those things or are these hellcats really HELLcats ------------------ "Some people don't see the light until they first feel the heat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 Maximising your advantages is the role of a good commander but is NO guarantee that things will go well. Also, check the penetration of the HVAP (t) shell of the Hellcat and now look at your Tiger's frontal armour . Extrapolate penetration at 900 metres from the 0 degrees slope at 1000 metres line. The Tiger's destruction is not so mysterious now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 It seems to be a bit of a luck of the draw thing. Sometimes the Hellcats do great, others not. I have tried a couple of different things to try and keep the German armour alive. Your tactic of keeping them on the opposite hill as far away and grouped to return fire can be effective. I have also tried to split them up with a StuG way over on the left and right and the Tiger in the centre. This works well against the AI, but is less effective against humans, since they don't flock shoot as much. ------------------ desert rat wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seimerst Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 I keep my German armor at a range greater than 1000 meters from where the Hellcats show up and normally will be able to destroy all three Hellcats with a loss of perhaps a Stug. The Hellcats hit the Tiger often enough up the shells either break up or ricochet off the front armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seimerst Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 I keep my German armor at a range greater than 1000 meters from where the Hellcats show up and normally will be able to destroy all three Hellcats with a loss of perhaps a Stug. The Hellcats hit the Tiger often enough up the shells either break up or ricochet off the front armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 Usually if I keep the Tiger back on the edge of the map, I still have very bad luck. Usually the shells do not break up, but damage the gun. The Cats still keep firing at this target though, so it gives my Stug out of LOS at the tree line a chance to reverse slightly to fire, which I have great success with. I usually do not even need the third one, and use him to keep the infantry on alert. The Cats get the Tiger more often than not, but with their attention drawn away the Stugs do the job eventually. Ray ------------------ SWAT 3 Page Panzer Elite(not up) Combat Mission(comming soon)Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 If you're going to play with the anticipation of their arrival around turn 10 then may i suggest smoking the hill prior to their arrival. Do a search on LD to see how others have done it. Personally, I found this offers you several advantages: 1) his LOS is blocked, negating his advantage of the high ground. 2) he now has to manuever to find you, this allows you to set up ambushes on either side of the smoke with your Stugs and Tiger. 3) your Infantry and HTs, protected as well, can proceed with the clearance of the town undisturbed. You can go so far as to have your 105 FO target the hill top with HE and your 81 FO with smoke. Nothing like a nice, warm welcome to show you care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 The tactic with keeping the Tiger on the back hill usually works well for me. I once had 14 hits from Hellcats bounce off or break up. If you wanna try out something crazy (against the AI) try rushing a StuG or even the Tiger up through the town and place it to the left or right of where the Hellcats enter. You always kill loads of infantry and usually get one or two Hellcats if you use a StuG. Unfortunetly I haven't had a StuG survive yet but I've kept the Tiger alive when I did this but he didn't get as many kills as when I did it with the StuG. I was thinking about trying it out with a StuG and a Tiger or two StuGs. Also remember to move fast and buttoned through the town and over the bridge. If you start rushing on Turn 1 you can usually take out one of their 60mm mortars too. So basically it's a really cheap, gamey tactic that only works sometimes but usually when it works it works well. I'm sure all the people who like to do things historically accurate are dropping their jaws. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 Couldn´t calling in arty on a empty hill or keeping your limited AFV resorces back be considered somewhat "gamey" ? Especially with the limited resources the German has.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurtz: Couldn´t calling in arty on a empty hill or keeping your limited AFV resorces back be considered somewhat "gamey" ? Especially with the limited resources the German has.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree, but how do you "fake" not knowing they're coming. Anybody who's played LD as the germans more than once has, in the back of their mind, adopted a more defensive stance around turn 8-9. The same could be said about the 88s in Reisburg or the 3 Stugs in CE. Its hard to pretend they're not there. Now, if the game allowed the U.S. commander a choice as to where the cats showed up...Hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeadams Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 I have also found that running all the armor through town and waiting either side of the entry point for the Hellcats to appear is very effective, especially coupled with HE fire. But I also agree that this makes for very unsatisfactory gaming. I suppose you could convince yourself you knew about the hellcats arrival thanks to superb intelligence work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 I know, it´s hard not to be aware of the upcoming threat but from there it´s a long way (at least for me) to start shelling a road because you know from previous experience that three Hellcats will appear soon. Well, as long as those who pursue this tactic just use it against the AI I guess it´s how they like to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 Well, personally I like getting in close with my tanks and infantry (as you probably all know by now). I like to run the Tiger up the main road through the village and across the bridge firing as it moves. In one game of LD (in which I'd lost both StuGs already to zooks ) I took out one of the Hellcats with my Tiger sitting at the bend of the road in the woods. Then, since my infantry were in the town by turn 10 I advanced my Tiger on Hunt down the main road into the town and got another Hellcat as it ran for cover. The last Hellcat hid behind the house on the right of the road on the other side of the river. As I crossed the river I area targeted the house, blew it apart and then put an AP shell through the Hellcat before MGing the entire infantry platoon and copious mortar teams. My opponent had more than enough material and manpower to take on my Tiger if he had stood and fought but I think he got rattled by the fact that I announced I was going to "ram my Tiger down your throat and kill your men" . Offensive action by an inferior force CAN sometimes be the best choice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurtz: Couldn´t calling in arty on a empty hill or keeping your limited AFV resorces back be considered somewhat "gamey" ? Especially with the limited resources the German has.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes and no. I know that part of US doctrine for attacking towns was to put a smoke screen "behind" the area under attack. This both blinded units in overwatch and made targets more visible against the white smoke background. I don't know this was common in the Wehrmacht or not. Experts on German tactics, please enlighten us. Just don't blow smoke up our arses Ethan ------------------ Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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