Guest MantaRay Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 First off I have to say that CM is far better, but warfare lovers shouldn't pass this one up. One thing is that it is not a small install like CM, who's install is 347 MB for a full install. Shogun's full install is get this, 1.4 GB. Yes folks that is 4 times the CM install!!! And it is kind of fun too, and the graphics are damn good for a game of this type. I really think it is a good diversion after playing a huge tank battle (OF which I will upload to my site sometime this week) and is very interesting to those who are into historical Japan. This is shaping up to be the best computer gaming year ever, with CM, Counterstrike, Diablo 2, WWIIonline,Swat 3, and a few others that I hope will come out this year. Isn't it great that we are alive in 2000? Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 FWIW I saw both CompUSA and Best Buy have this one on sale this week for $27.99 The both do this once in awhile, then the price will go up again. So if you plan on buying it in the next 2-3 months I would suggest you get it now. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Khann Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 I've not played Shogun myself yet, but a good friend of mine has it and says it's really, really good. I don't doubt his word, since he's been routinely e-mailing that news to me at 3 or 4 in the morning, and I know for a fact that he has to be to the office by 9 a.m. ..... Papa P.S. Yes, he is already into CM too. We're currently playing the Aachen scenario. So I'm not shirking my duty to get every one of my gaming friends to check out CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 The retail price is $29.95 (At Electronics Botique) and after playing a bit more before bed last night, it is a damn good deal too. It really is good, but only if you have CM first Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Hi all, re Shogun: I bought it the day it came out and I really had alot of fun with it for a few days. After that, it paled quickly and was promptly returned to the store. There just really isnt any depth to the strategic game at all. Its only Single-player, and the AI seems to BLATANTLY cheat so badly so as to make it seem pointless. Its not impossible to win, mind you, it just seems silly that the ridiculous kill ratios you get vs the AI are not a reward, but a necessity in order to compete. All is not doom and gloom for the game, however. The tactical battles are alot of fun at the beginning. The troops look impressive, and the panoramic views are gorgeous to look at. IMO, they could really benefit from some objective flags to invalidate some gamey tactics (hiding units in obscure locations, scattering units and keeping on the run until time runs out, etc.). These gamey tactics keep the game from being much fun when played online. If you get the right opponent, its really fun, but far too many people are 'win at any cost' and are willing to reduce the game to 'hide and go seek'. I was also hoping for a bit more from the strategic level of the game. I had visions of the Diplomacy models in MOO/MOO2 etc. Instead, your Diplomatic Options seem limited to 'Offer Alliance'...Even that seems to not be worth the rice paper its printed on. Very shallow... Anyone who read the James Clavell novel SHOGUN would think that there would be intrigue and political maneuvering galore in a game modeling that period. Well, its just not present in any form in the game. Sure, you can send 'Spies' to determine troop strengths, and Ninja to assasinate enemy Generals etc, but the overall effect is lacking. Its really just a glorified battle generator for the tactical game IMO. All in all, if you want a very simple 'Risk on Steroids' set in Feudal Japan, with very pretty battle, you'll like Shogun. If you are looking for any long-term depth in your games, I'd leave this one alone. It comes out of the starting gate very strong, but finishes up amongst the back of the pack. Talenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 I wouldn't be as harsh as Talenn but basically he points out the major flaws. I don't agree with vic locations because warfare was conducted differently. Denying the enemy battle was at least as important as battle itself. The strategic system is basically ok but lacks diplomacy in a big way, other aspects however ie economics are modelled pretty well. AI is pretty good. There are many subtle things you don't notice at first, which makes the strategic side look simplistic and the AI primitive. Tactically, i would say the game is THE best simulator of late medievial-early modern warfare. My only complaint about the tactical side would be sieges. They are modeled only stategically. Overall Shogan is an adventureous and orginal concept. But with the autosave its just to easy to win. It took me jus 3 days to complete it on the top diff setting. Jus gimme CM quick quick quick, n Shogun will prob fade into a distant memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Ai also dienied me a win by scattering units and it just kept moving units away from me. Sure I killed 100 and lost just 14. But I was not able to prevent AI from just running around until time-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 My younger brother is a Koei buff. He plays all the strategy game from Koei I show him the Shogun demo and he loves it. He rushes out to buy the game and he keeps playing right now. I have no free disk space to play it right now. May be later. Griffin @ home ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Londoner, are you sure? Is it THE BEST late medievial-early modern warfare set in fuedalistic Japan game EVER produced? Zamo showing his WWII bias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Have to agree with most everything Talenn says here, I'm sorry to say. Samurai Japan is actually my main historical interest and I've played strategic campaigns involving tactical battles with miniatures for around ten years now. S:TW was a BIG disappointment in the strategic stakes, especially as the game was delayed for so long. This part of S:TW reminded me of a 'family boardgame' called 'Shogun' (re-released as 'Samurai Swords') by MB Games. That boardgame was itself a sort of samurai version of 'Risk'. Despite Japan's mountainous terrain, with movement of armies confined to the few roads, in S:TW the map is completely flat as far as strategic movement is concerned. Plus even though provinces such as Mutsu are huge compared to small ones such as Iga, they are all treated as if they are the same: all you have to do is walk in and win one battle (plus a siege if there's a castle) and the province is yours. You can only build ONE castle in province. Why? In r/l Mutsu, many were built. And yes the diplomacy and intrigue is equally superficial. If you're into this period, do yourself a favour and get hold of the movie 'Samurai Banners' starring Toshiro Mifune. Based very closely on the life of an advisor to the Takeda Clan its got it all - colourful battles, heroics, alliances, treachery and subterfuge. Best of all, there's not a darn ninja in sight. After all they were mostly romantic myth that grew up in the post-samurai era. Certainly not the rampaging assassins that kill my taisho every few turns! The samurai game with best strategic map IMO is still the old classic 'Lords of the Rising Sun' - the only reason I still own an Amiga! The tactical battles were pretty abstract but for 1989 what can anyone expect? At least this is one feature S:TW really excels in and they certainly are pretty. Even so, the unit types aren't very historical, showing the designer's Euro-centric prejudice mostly. This Samurai Warrior is looking forward to Combat Mission being many times superior; after all, the designers of THIS game didn't isolate themselves in an ivory tower for years; they actually listened to wargamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This part of S:TW reminded me of a 'family boardgame' called 'Shogun' (re-released as 'Samurai Swords') by MB Games. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Frankly I thought it was a computer copy of the board game, which, as you say was more of a family game. I too thought the game would be great, and was looking forward to using it to stave off the pangs of CM deprivation. After the first few tactical battles (which were pretty impressive BTW) I tried the campaign game and rather quickly found myself bored with it all. For the price it's not bad at all, and the tactical battles can be VERY impressive with their scope and grandeur. But overall I wasn't that impressed. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Advantage of owning a Mac. Couldn't play it anyway so I won't worry about disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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