An almost silly rebuttle to CM's superior AI

[CoolColJ]

I played the Sp demo some months ago - lasted 5 min on my HD

ccj

[DesertFox]

Guys

Don´t underestimate the community of SP-players. Many of them, me included, play the games of the SP-series for years now. The game has been continously improved due to the work the SP-Camo-Workshop has put in it.

We have the best game of the Steelpanthers series right now with SP:WW2 [http://spcamo.thegamers.net] and it´s available for free.

If ever CM will have the same ability to addict people over a 5 years lasting timecourse remains to be seen.

No question the beta demo is very promissing and I have to admit that I am hooked since I played it.

But to compare both games is like comparing apples with oranges or like comparing CM with PE. These games aren´t comparable IMO and don´t even cover the same scale. CM will be best, no question to me, to simulate 2-3 companies at your side, while SP:WW2 or the announced SP:W@W can cover a larger scale at a broader range and timescale.

Both games have their pro´s and con´s and I bet many SP-players are awaiting the release of COMBAT MISSION impatiently as I do

In the long run CM might have the potential to become a worthy successor to SteelPanthers.

So don´t start to polarize the SP-Community but start to convince the people with showing them the huge potential of Combat Mission. In the long run you will do Combat Mission a favour if most of the SP Players switch to CM. With increasing sales for CM you will set the basis of further development and improvements.

Helge

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Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate!

- The DesertFox -

Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com

WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/

[Stef]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron:

While being fully aware that every gamer's perception is subjective, I wanted to comment that I found the exact opposite of the above to be true. The CM beta demo brought me back to wargaming in a big way largely because it is so easy to get into and play. I find the methods used to play well, ie scouting a good LOS position, moving unseen etc., felt more natural and made more sense than those employed in other wargames I have tried. For me they weren't tedious or time consuming or obtrusive at all. Perhaps because I don't have the background/conditioning from other wargames it was an easier adjustment but from this 'newbies' perspective CM is intuitive and the 'suprise' was wholly pleasant.

Ron<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ron, I'm 100% ok with you. I immediatly felt the "natural" side of CM too. I was an SP fan before but after some games against friends of mine the way you had to play was to much based on technical tricks (scouting first and surrounding the enemy adjacent hexagones after, killing his T-34 with 6 Tiger and so on...) and not on a "feeling" of the battle. It was a lot of fun but it wasn't real enough for me. With CM you don't have to think in hexagone terms or in move/attack point...you just have to think as in real life. Even if I was used to play with a traditional "hex wargame" style I had quiet no problems to play CM the first time...it was so natural...and it'll be the same for sure for all CM newbies who are looking for realism in wargaming.

Stephan

[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 04-07-2000).]

[Guest -panzershreck-]

is SP , South Park ?

[DEF BUNGIS]

I haven't spent much time on the SPW@W forum.

But just browsing thru there, I didn't see the excitement like I do here.

As far as I understand, SPW@W is going to be a huge improvement to the SP series.

I mean, jumping from a DOS based to Windows based platform is big stuff IMO.

Another thing I didn't care for was......

And i'm still not quite sure is,

you will need to own SP3 to be able to play

SPW@W...?? I have never palyed any SP editions. But, that definatley turned me off. I dont want to have to buy 2 games, SP W@W being full price, and then buy SP3 for reduced price. It just doesn't click.

IMO, CM is steeling the thunder from the release of SPW@W. It just can't compete.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[NCrawler]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DEF BUNGIS:

Another thing I didn't care for was......

And i'm still not quite sure is,

you will need to own SP3 to be able to play

SPW@W...?? I have never palyed any SP editions. But, that definatley turned me off. I dont want to have to buy 2 games, SP W@W being full price, and then buy SP3 for reduced price. It just doesn't click.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will need to own either SP2 or SP3 to play SPW@W, but SPW@W will be free...

[This message has been edited by NCrawler (edited 04-07-2000).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Helge,

In general I agree with you. However, the SP group is already polarized, even before CM (i.e. with Close Combat). There are those that will react negatively against *anything* new. This is true for pretty much any group of people that values tradition over progress. All the long established games have such groups within the larger group. The most common ones to see discussed here are Steel Panthers, PitS, ASL, and Close Combat.

The problem is that these reactionary groups, for whatever reason, feel that they have to justify their game by trashing ours. And that ticks us off because much of the arguments are BS.

Steve

[Major Tom]

I only own Steel Panthers, haven't played it in a long time because it doesn't work on my computer anymore. My computer has a major problem with DOS games. Sure, SP isn't as "realistic" as CM (Infantry was just too weak in this game), nor was it 3D, but, it was good for a very long time. Haven't really looked into the SPW@W stuff, as, I would have to go out and buy another game just to see what the thing looks like! (I know it is free, but, I don't own SP2 or 3).

I am kind of miffed at SPW@W, because I am a big Pacific War fan. Matrix games is modifying the old 1992 code to 2000 standard graphics and deeper gameplay. However, SPW@W is taking up WAY too much time and effort. The response about Pacific War II has been astounding, yet, they rarely update the webboard they set up for it. I would even pay good money to get a revised version of Pacific War, as, other than CM it is the best Wargame I have ever owned.

You will always have those people who like what they like and won't make an effort to change, because they are comfortable. When I first saw Combat Mission, back in September or November of 99 I was kind of hesitant. It didn't have the campaign system that SP offered and I was really used to playing these types of games. However, once I downloaded the Demo, and saw how good even the Beta version was I became a 100% CM supporter.

Just give it time, after it is released the reviews will sell the game. Nobody ever said you couldn't own and like both SP and CM, did they?

[DEF BUNGIS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom:

Just give it time, after it is released the reviews will sell the game. Nobody ever said you couldn't own and like both SP and CM, did they? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a couple nights ago, in Loraks chat room, I asked how many people were going to get SPW@W, WWII online, sudden strike or any other war game besides CM.

Seems like overall, WWII online is the only other interest.

There just doesn't seem to me like a big excitement or interst in SP any more.

Me personnaly, I don't like any HEX related games any more. It's a thing of the past.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Major Tom]

Well, there is major demand for Pacific War II, but, the updates have been sporadic and uninformative. This game is 8 years old, still on my hard drive. It has been through 2 Computers! When Pacific War II is released, If Pacific War II is released I will be as extatic as when I get my copy or CM. The Release for PWII is scheduled for sometime in May. It would kickroyalass if I get CM and PWII all within the time span of one month!

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

Hey guys,

I just received an email from the Matrix Games Forum Administrator about an embedded image I posted in the forum. It was the two M1A1 tanks that had run over each other from that other thread about "tanks procreating, etc". The guy emails me, crying to stop embedding "Off-Topic" images in the forum. And I'm thinking. Well, since they don't have a product out yet--What IS on topic. At least we have beta testers and a beta demo to go off of. But this guy won't let ANYTHING that is not related to Matrix Games be posted on their forums.

Well, the guy told me final warning or I will be banned. So I, being the gentle giant that I am, wrote him a nice little letter telling him what to go do with himself. I mean, JEEZ, Steve didn't scream "OFF TOPIC" when Madmatt's girlfriend had her surgery. Granted, there are some topics that don't need to be discussed, but com'on!

A forum is not only to discuss a game, but also to socialize with the fellow community.

To me, anything, remotely related to WWII or military, and anything related to any forum member should be allowed on such forums.

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"I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang

[Major Tom]

What's the address for the Matrix Games forum?

I wanna harass them for info on Pacific War II. Thanks a lot.

[fiftymicrolitres]

The effectiveness of Zyklon-B on eliminating inferior humans is thus an acceptable topic for discussion on this board by virtue of your standards OB&G.

Give it up already. *You've* got a bee in your bonnet because you were chided re: your posting on a private forum, Remember, what goes is what is allowed on a piece of private property.

Why not drop it? The choir is over here.

5m

[DesertFox]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The problem is that these reactionary groups, for whatever reason, feel that they have to justify their game by trashing ours. And that ticks us off because much of the arguments are BS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve

Agreed.

There are always people who aren´t open minded in any group of gamers. You can´t really discuss things with these people, it´s leading to nowhere. But the majority is remaining silent and if these people can be convinced to give CM a try there might be a great potential for CMs future.

Helge

[Guest MantaRay]

Well, I for 1 loved both SP and SP2, but was sick of the same game too much to buy SP3. It was a nice game while it lasted, but not even worth the time it would take to put on my hard drive now, assuming it would even run at all.

My favorite game of all time was Panzer General, if only for sheer hours of playing it. I had really no interest in WWII history before I got PG even though I was in the service at the time. I guess watching WWII documentries doesnt constitute being a historian on the subject.

And even when I think back to the time...I had loads of fun playing PBEM games with the SP games. I must say i was pretty damn good too *pats self on back* and I seriously can't remember losing a single game as the Germans. Why??? Because I always had some 88's to crush the stuffing out of the T-34's and Brit tanks.

But comparing CM and SP is like comparing PG to TOAW. Only thing that is constant between these games is they were boxed and on a cd.

But someone made a comment about SP having a terrible manual. Well look back to PATRIOT. That game had an awesome manual, but wow was the game play horrible. I couldnt make heads or tails of it, and it was so quick it was over before I could figure it out. Iraq even beat my ass in one game...now tell me if that could have happened.

Now my opinion will not be popular here, but I kind of wish they had not done such a complete manual for CM. Reason being is I think the time and money could have been better suited for C&S to use for CM2, or just to make themselves some extra pocket change. And even if it only ends up to cost them $1 per box, that still adds up, and maybe they could have even hired a part time artist to help lessen the load for them.

But it will be a good bathroom read anyhow.

Ray

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MantaRays 5 Pages

[Guest PeterNZ]

I don't think i ever "got" Panzer General series.

I just couldn't comprehend a blob of tanks in this huge hex area with a blob of infantry on one side and a blob of arty on the other.. I just couldn't 'get' it.. And lack of simultaneous turns too.. hmm

PeterNZ

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.C O M B A T. .V I S I O N.

* Film From The Front *

http://combatvision.panzershark.com/

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

OK guys, I'll pull the thorn outta my ass about the Matrix Games Forum, but just one last point.

*{Soap-box mode on}*

The short-sightedness of the administrator is really the problem. He's keeping their forum from expanding into a community like we have here. You know, we all have an idea of who each other are, but when you keep a "clamp" on what people post, then you can't get a sense of who people really are. You just can't limit a public forum to just basic questions about gameplay or game features. Cause if that was the case, this board would have died two months ago.

*{Soap-box mode off}*

OK, I'm with MantaRay. I loved SPI and SPII, but like he said, I was just tired of the game by the time SPIII came along, cause that's about the time Talonsoft's Campaign Series started which to me were better games anyway. Steel Panthers was good for its day, but times change.

PATRIOT! LOL, Funny you should mention that. I had that game too. Yes the manual was good, but the game didn't play like anything the manual said. For one, the interface didn't even work. And second, the action took place without control from the player. That was the worst $50 I ever spent.

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"I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang

[Guest Big Time Software]

OK guys, I would ask you all to just settle down about the Matrix BBS. It is their right to run it as they see fit. Going over there and harrassing them doesn't do anybody any good. Those SP players that really want to know about CM will come here, the few that don't want to aren't going to be convinced by discussion anyway, so there is no point.

Steve

[Guest Captain Foobar]

"Good Friends come and go, but the enemies you make, last forever....."

[Guest Big Time Software]

Well, unless you kill em I suppose Sorry, I couldn't resist slipping in a bit of the dark side of human nature!

Steve

[iggi]

***Yea guys, I wouldst asketh thee all to just settle unto about the Matrix BBS. It is Satan's right to run it as Satan behold fit. Goingeth upon tither and harrassing Satan doesn't doth anybody any righteous. Those SP apostles that really covet to know about CM shall cometh here, the few that don't covet to aren't goingeth to be convinced by discussion anyway, so tither is goddamn this cubit***

Sorry,couldn't resist

http://www.askjesus.org