JeffRaider Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 That's it! I've frigging had it with operations. I've only had a couple even decent experiences with them, and the rest were sucksville. My one and only quibble with them is the frontline movement and the subsequent troop re(tard-like)deployments. Why do my troops have to move back at all? I don't get that. I favour the defence, you see, so I always get the ****ty end of the stick in operations. Attacking operations have been my only good experiences so far. I don't want my damned troops moving at all. Have a dynamic frontline, around MY troops. If anything, frontline movements should favour the defender, to simulate the attacker backing off to reorganize. Defenders shouldn't be pushed off of hard-won positions merely because the attacker got CLOSE to it. I hate having to painstakingly replace my guys in their positions(especially with a Bn+) each battle. That's a piss off. This needs to be fixed, dang it. Sorry if this was written in a poor tone, I'm kind of steamed over the annoyance of having to redeploy the 2nd Para every round in Pak40's outstanding(so far) Arnhem Bridge Operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Actually I may be able to help here Pak, excellent looking scenario, Im really looking forward to giving it a go. One idea though I thought Id run past you is that the no mans land setting appears to be set to 400m. I have noticed what Jeff mentioned above happening before when 400m is used on map in urban evironments becuase it really pushes the front lines back. Ive been experimenting with a city battle myself and I would suggest an 80m no mans, maybe even 0m. I would add a word of warning to both players if its 0, but I think that could really turn out some mean fighting in cities whilst keeping the front lines reasonable constant. Personally I find 400m only suitable for large battles in very open terrain, as in reality as the defender you want to pull back under these conditions. Jeff, I tend to always check no mans before playing an operation I usually set it to 80m and make sure i let the other player know. That way the front lines are more stable, but of course action can start fast, so you have to be careful. Excellent map Pak, Im looking forward to giving this one a run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by KwazyDog: Personally I find 400m only suitable for large battles in very open terrain, as in reality as the defender you want to pull back under these conditions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The keyword here is of couse want, not must, which is of course Jeff's point. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I tend to always check no mans before playing an operation I usually set it to 80m <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dam good idea! Thanks for the tip, Dan. ------------------ I am not a racialist, but, und this is a big but, we in the National Bocialist Party believe das überleben muss gestammen sein mit der schneaky Armstrong-Jones. (Mr. Hilter) [This message has been edited by Juju (edited 08-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 "The keyword here is of couse want, not must, which is of course Jeff's point." Agreed JuJu This is why i usually do a quick check before I start the scenario. Probably 9 out of 10 games I play are against the same player and we use 80m as a rule of thumb, though I am interesting in trying 0m in the arhnem battle. This way every building should be hard fought over and won. Of course it is important both players are aware of this becuase it makes a big difference in unit setup, I often find myself placing units well back from the front lines when I know the enemy could be only 80 away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 "Of course it is important both players are aware of this" Ah, yes. I Gather you stressed this bit cos I neglected to include it in the quote I used? You are right, of course. That brings me to a question, Dan. So far I've been reluctant to play a PBEM operation cos I have this idea in my head that playing such an operation would take months. Well, months is probably pushing it a little, but how long does it take you to complete the average PBEM operation? In days/turns per day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Good question JuJu, hehe. I have played lots and I mean lots of operations but most of them have been over a network at home using the PBEM format What I can tell you is that in general turns take no longer than they would for a standard scenario, keeping in mind that most ops do tend to be larger. The good part about most operations Ive played is that they usually have smaller battles than your average scenario, usually around the 15-20 minute mark. This means you usually get 2-3 operation battles done within the time of one standard scenario. Thus, I guess my answer is that it would probably take you 2 to 3 times longer than it currently takes you to play a PBEM scenario They are in my opinion even better than scenarios though becuase you really have to think of the big picture and keeping your troops for the next battle in the op. I think Martins Utrechtseweg op would be a great first time PBEM operation. Its probably around the medium complexity and it a LOT of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Hey Kwazydog, you know, I could have sworn I put that no mans land to zero, so I went in and checked. It was 400. so I set it to zero (again) and saved it. I exited and re-loaded the scenario in the editor and guess what it was set to: 400 Every time the Operation is oped in the editor, it is set to 400 - I think I found a bug!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Eeek, errm, I am 90% sure that one has been fixed in 1.05 Pak, but I will double check just to be sure Pak, just to be sure which patch are you currently using? Now I think about it I *thought* this had been fixed in 1.04 but maybe its in the upcoming 1.05... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Well, I am still designing in Version 1.3 but I have the executable for 1.4 also, so I can actually run both. I'll have to try and load my operation in 1.4 and see if it saves the no mans land. thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Thatll probably fix it for you Pak, I did a check and it works fine in 1.04 for me Im looking forward to seeing the final of this one Pak, it should make a great urban battle, that one big town youve got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 Great replies, guys! Thanks! I'll try the 80m no man's land, and the 0m in Arnhem Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I think the 400m no mans land was fixed in 1.04 (according to the readme). JeffRaider, I suspect that all of the operations that shipped with CM have no mans land set to 400m due to this bug, whether this was the intent of the operation designer or not. While 400m may be appropriate for some operations, it isn't for a lot of them. Now that this bug is fixed, do the operation designers want to let us know what they 'should' be? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 Very good point. Back to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 Okay, another gripe. Setting No Man's Land to zero was very helpful, and the front line is very nice now, but why does CM have to pick up my units and scatter them all over the place each new battle? I don't mind normally, but when you're dealing with a Battalion+ like in Arnhem Bridge, it's very frustrating. JUST LEAVE MY GUYS ALONE, GODDAMNIT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Jeff, I hear your cries. I'm wondering if switching the British to the attacking side will help. The attacker in CM is the one who gets the free land, even though he didn't have to fight for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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