jdmorse Posted April 3, 2000 Share Posted April 3, 2000 I was wondering if there isany data on how many downloads of the CM beta have occurred. What sort of user base are you creating. *An Aside* Also as a Mac user from 1984 I want to express my gratitude for including the Mac in the CM release. After many years of resentful longing of my PC brethren (not that I'd get caught dead using one you understand! Such is PC-phobia) and only seeing some faltering starts -Chris Crawford's "Patton and Rommel" or "Sands of Fire" come to mind,- it's great to see something that is for the Mac, and in the words of Steve Jobs, "Insanely Great!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 3, 2000 Share Posted April 3, 2000 Not to get into another platform war here, but isn't it ironic that it is much easier to feed the software than it is to the hardware? I mean, as the TBS movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" showed that just because you have a monopoly on your hardware doesn't mean it will be widely accepted. It's the software that runs the hardware that can be easily manipulated. Kinda like the quote, Steve Jobs: "We have better stuff". Bill Gates: "Yes, but we have the software." (or something like that) --------------------------------------------- However, the reason actually why CM is available in Mac OS format IS because the game is being written on the Mac. Charles, the programmer uses a Mac G4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxhole Posted April 3, 2000 Share Posted April 3, 2000 Here Here, Good move BTS making CM Mac compatible. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 Hey if Charles is making it on a Mac then isn't he actually making the game PC compatible? Yes he is! Go macs! ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 Some numbers, Sid Meier's Anteitam sold around 8000 copies. That was with lots of dollars in adds and such. If this is any indication of what BTS can expect with like amounts of dollars spent on adds then I'm afraid there will be no CM world take over. I hear that Anteitam will be on the shelves soon. I wonder if BTS is looking for a publisher. Big cheers for making the game on a Mac and porting it to PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 Ummmmm, Pirate old man, perhaps you should read the Manifesto at the Battlefront.com main page before someone less polite than I(and there are many lurking about!) reads your post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 "Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord...conquering the gaming world, one squad at a time" And thanks a bunch for giving the Mac community a war game of substance, guys. It's pretty sad to walk down the aisle of the local software/videos/music store and find probably 20 or so different wargaming titles and find that none of them are for Mac and never have been made for Mac. Not that most other wargames are worth playing, but it'd have been nice to at least try out Panzer General 3D (i think thats what its called) or some other game like that while I'm waiting for the grand poobah of all wargames. <sigh> oh well, I guess I'll just have to stick with ol'CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted April 5, 2000 Share Posted April 5, 2000 von Lucke, I have read it, I know more than I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 Wow, did I kill this thread? I was looking forward to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pirate: Wow, did I kill this thread? I was looking forward to the debate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How about an agreement. I think the only people not bennifiting from CM are the middle men. Even if BTS don't sell that many games, they still get all the cash. I like when people stand up for what they believe in. Hell, just look at my siganture. CM can turn out to be a total bust, but, the integrity is what really counted. If you notice my profile, RUSH (the band) wrote a song on this very subject about the music industry called "Spirit of the radio." When I read the BTS manifesto, it almost mimics this songs theme. So yes, I agree, CM may well not take over the world, but to all those middle men....****em, ****em all. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 That's better, now we got it going again. I do praise Charles for his effort. But I wonder about his true motive. Is it because he could not find a publisher, or because he truely believes that the industry should move this way. This game started out with Avalon Hill. I know Charles, as well as most other people working with AH, got kind of burned there. I also know how hard it is to get any kind of good terms for low selling (by marketing nerd projections)games from publishers. Heck it is very hard to get a publisher to even look at a wargame. I remember when Ardennes Offensive was traveling the world looking for a publisher, no one would pick it up, but finally SSI did. It is a great game, you can get it for free now, but nobody wanted it. Is it that Charles does not want the middle men, or is it that the middle men don't want Combat Mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 I dont think it has anything to do with ideals, its just plain good buisness sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 Another reason why they are not publishing the game to stores is that you have to buy shelf space for your games. And if your games don't sell good then they will get pulled from the shelves to make room for new games. With the Internet being the medium for selling this game, there is no shelf space to buy, no worries on if the game sells, and no worries if the game will always be available. Because 5 years from now and you still want CM, then just go and order it from Battlefront.com and you will get it. With the Internet being the medium, the game will sell gradually through the years instead of having to boast big sales initially. So of course, for all of us who know about CM now and have pre-ordered will provide a relatively large initial sale, but for those people later on down the line, they will be able to grab a copy whenever they want. Actually it's the publishers that *PUSH* games out the doors usually bug-ridden and problematic. Without having to worry about a "deadline", BTS can iron-out and bug-squash until their hearts are content without having marketeers breathing down their throat to get an "unfinished" game out the door. So for as long as it takes, CM may or may not take over the world, but the opportunity will always be there. I can almost assure you, that by the time CM2 and CM3 come around, the word will be out that CM is "your next wargame" ------------------ "I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 Wow a good post by OB&G...something odd is afoot...hehehe.. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin: Wow a good post by OB&G...something odd is afoot...hehehe.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just my interpretation of the Battlefront.com Manifesto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Yes Yes, Mr Bloody Gut. I read all that in the manifesto. That is not what I am talking about. Ask Major H about direct sales of Tac Ops. They may make you a living (or not) but being any kind of earth shaking game that makes the world take notice, no way. This game won't be worth the net space it takes up in 5 years. It is a good game now, but pirates and other, better games will kill it in two years. Oh, and you don't have to buy shelf space in the industry. That is an outright lie. The only space you have to buy are endcaps. Those are those nifty racks at the end of store shelves. You need to know the industry to make fun of it or you just look silly. I do agree that marketing nerds ruin more good games than they produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 I don't know all the numbers that went into the decision, but I favor the decision to distribute Combat Mission through direct sales on the internet. I expect that game developers selling through a game publisher would get perhaps 40 to 50% of the game price, and I doubt the game publisher would increase sales numbers by 2 or 2.5 times. I just hope so many people are exposed to Combat Mission that sales are sufficient to get all the follow on CMs out the door. I'm pleased every time I see the CM demo reviewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Pirate said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Oh, and you don't have to buy shelf space in the industry. That is an outright lie. The only space you have to buy are endcaps. Those are those nifty racks at the end of store shelves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unfortunately it's not a lie. If you want retail shelfspace, you will be forced to pay for it one way or another. It could be endcap fees, but more likely it's either a required and continuing purchase of "advertising" space (e.g. in the store's circular), or, even worse, so-called "market development fees", which are really nothing more than a bribe; or if not either of those, then the best you can hope for is a retail buyer saying, "OK, we're potentially interested, but only if you can guarantee that you're backing your product with a (fill in the blank with a very large number)-dollar marketing budget, or else it's not worth it to us to stock it." Got a few hundred thousand bucks burning a hole in your pocket? You'll need it if you want to be on a store shelf for any nontrivial length of time. I've been there. So has Steve. For big companies and small. Make no mistake - one way or another you pay for shelf space. And as time goes on, the price just gets higher and higher. The bar is set so high now that small companies just can't compete. Think about all the corporate buyouts that have happened over the past couple of years and it will begin to make sense to you. The little guys had to sell out because they couldn't get onto the shelf anymore. MOS was 71331 said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I expect that game developers selling through a game publisher would get perhaps 40 to 50% of the game price<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You're a real optimist. Sadly, the ugly truth is that it's not even close to a figure that high. Now you guys know why we're on the net instead. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Now that BTS has spoken, can we shut down this thread already?!? To be honest, I couldn't care less about shelf space, or marketing fees, or corporate buyouts, and I sure don't care about pirates All I know is that, regardless of how CM is sold or marketed, my money's on the table and I'm going to have a copy of CM in late May. Since I'm a Mac user living in the middle of nowhere, I have to buy all my software online anyway, so it makes absolutely no difference to me that CM will not show up "on the shelves." The few stores here that carry software in any capacity carry only PC titles, and the one store that does carry Mac software does it at about a ratio of 200 PC titles to 1 for Mac (and this is no exaggeration). So even if CM came out on shelves, it's not certain that I'd see it anyway. Which prompt s me to once again thank Charles and Steve for working so hard to produce such a wonderful game and for inviting Mac users to the big party. Oh, and as far as questions of "Will anyone care about this game in 5 years?" I think more people are noticing this game than you realize. Over the past few weeks I've seen several reviews and previews of CM on Mac gaming sites. Some of these were written by obvious novices to wargaming (like me ), but they still gushed over how revolutionary and entertaining CM is. So at least on the Macintosh end, BTS is creating a fan base... of course, part of that is because we get something like one new worthwhile release each month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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