BDW Posted November 4, 1999 Author Share Posted November 4, 1999 OK I think I understand why my floating numbers and LOS tool suggestions are not in the spirit of the game. I think I understand now what BTS means by "unlearn". I guess the only suggestion I really stand by is the terrain colors. In real life I can judge elevation much better than in CM. I don't think I am color-blind, either. I just have a real hard time making out the changes in elevation - no matter which camera position I use. I don't know what the solution is, but you guys have to admit that the elevation changes are difficult to make out. Unless this is done on purpose by BTS, then I think it is something that can be improved. Oh and some sort of confirmations for cancelling artillery, too. I stand by that suggestion, too. Pretty minor complaints. Pretty awesome game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Dear Moon ! Danke schön, but my problem was that I wanted to plot a long movement path across a field and through the wood until I get LOS to the enemy wall line, so I cannot use this method, since my unit has yet to enter the woods. And the fact that you present a work-around just confirms that this IS an issue and should be addressed ! I do not understand why I should rely on "experience" when all the data is in the game. If a mathematical abstraction is used than a proper visualization should be attempted. The same goes for counters and floating numbers, in my opinion ! Since the information is there (and vital) it should be as easy as possible to access it. In the zoomed out views I would trade the polygon figures for counters any time just to avoid having to click on every unit for a head count ! Regards, Thomm [This message has been edited by Thomm (edited 11-04-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scarhead Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 My biggest wish: "Auftragstaktik" (assigning tasks to groups of units, performing orders depending on other units' actions) instead of micromanagement. Example 1: I called arty with a FO, then moved him into a better position to spot. I put the last waypoint to a place from where I thought he had LOS - but the FO then had none. When the barrage came seconds later, the shots fell too far from the target. If I have a FO calling arty, he should be able to move around a bit trying to get a view to his arty target. It is a bit strange if you order fire on an area, then run into position to spot and find you just sit behind a tree without LOS - 2 metres to the right you would have had LOS and the same amount of cover. Having this FO "influenced" by the AI to behave like a human would have been a big .help Example 2: I had a Stug and a plt of motorized infantry attacking the lone house on the dirt road in the "Last Defense" scenario (almost anything else went forward on the right flank). I wanted to coordinate an attack on the grunts near the house, while the StuG was just a few metres out of LOS to a US squad there (2 others and a Bazooka yet unspotted). I ordered it to move forward a bit (tried both hunt and move)and assigned the nearby US squad as target. During execution, the StuG always shifted fire to an unimportant target far away (US squad at 300 metres, no threat for other units). It would have been great if I could have told the StuG and the supporting infantry to "Get that house! Approach it carefully from out of the woods and smoke cover that allowed us to close in, use coordinated tactics and as soon as an infantry squad engages a target, stop moving and fire at it, trying to bring the other units of the little task force in good position to support the attack ASAP. (With the armors protecting the nearby Grenadiers and them protecting the StuG vs Bazooka teams) The same problem arises when an AI plt assaults - the Plt HQ still attacks after its squads got decimated, routed or both. Scarhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scarhead Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Addendum: I do not think a real life commander will tell his unit to exactly move to coordinates x, y, but to move toward the edge of the forest _near_ x, y into a position where the unit - is able to fight targets A, B and C or - can fight any target in a given area or - just has the best lookout position in the vicinity. I want to have the "move to" depending on the "why". If I assign a target out of sight, I would like to have the "hunt" or "move" command (grunts need "hunt, too!!!) interpreted as "move approximately there to fight that target. If there is no place near the las waypoint where you have LOS to target - tough luck, next time check the map better. But if there is a place near, then go there. If there is _no_ "move (or similar)" command: Contrary to the above, I do not want to have the "target" command interpreted as "move into position to fight that target". Only as "if that target comes in LOS - this is the preferred target (if there is no other more imminent threat). This stops squads from stupidly moving out of their cover. Same goes with rotate: If I issue a "Move into house, rotate South" command, I want the squad to occupy the Southern windows. If I only rotate South in the house, I could ignore that. If I give a little move command and a rotate south - you get it. Same for other cover than houses - rotate could be used to tell the AI to find a suitable place where LOS in that direction is free towards the end point of the rotate line. Plus I want a "target units in area" command where a unit does not just area fire, but only fire if it can identify targets there. And it should not turn its attention on some obscure unit far away - only real threats (M18s approaching on hill...) should override this command. Even better: a "stick to your mission"-level could be set for each unit each turn, but that could increase micromanagement? Three levels "any case, ignore threats (stick to mission)" "react to threats (concentrate on mission)" "feel free, no important mission". Anyway, it is a good game already. Maybe I will find out some suggestions are already in. Don't know everything about the game after playing the "beta" demo for some 20 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 BDW says... "I guess the only suggestion I really stand by is the terrain colors. In real life I can judge elevation much better than in CM. I don't think I am Color-blind, either. I just have a real hard time making out the changes in elevation - no matter which camera position I use." I must be misinterpreting what you are trying to say, but in real life, I don't ahve a view of the terrain tat is 100 meters up in teh air, my view of the terrain is down there where the one key is and this view leaves nothing up to the imagination what I can and cannot see. And when i am 100m up in the air, such as when we are inserting via helicopter or hanging in a chute, whatever, it si very difficult at time sto make out differnces in terrain elevation and what not based on visula cues. of course this depends on a lot of thing, most definately lighting angle etc. What I would like to see is more shading or the graphics engine taking into account position of sun and casting shadows on the terrain from other terrain. Biut this discussin was had about a month ago and it's very difficult to do. Scarhead says: "If I have a FO calling arty, he should be able to move around a bit trying to get a view to his arty target. It is a bit strange if you order fire on an area, then run into position to spot and find you just sit behind a tree without LOS - 2 metres to the right you would have had LOS and the same amount of cover." I think I understand your point, but speaking as someone who has called in real life artillery (and airstrikes) a number of times there's a few observations (no pun intended): 1. When you are calling in artillery (as it is modelled in CM, which is observed fire only) , you have to get into position first, then call the stuff in and observe. Once the rounds are inbound you don't get up and move around. You should have already found the best spot to call in the arty and sit there and do it. 2. You do however have the ability to call in the big stuff on something you can't directly observe and this leads to more inaccurate fire which is as it should be. If I was to make one arty recommendation it would be to allow the scenario designer to purchase TRPs, that would somehow improve the accuracy and more importantly the response time for called fire, even on non observed targets. "I do not think a real life commander will tell his unit to exactly move to coordinates x, y," That's correct, company and platoon commanders normally give movement commands based on general terrain features (i.e. Move to the edge of that treeline and overwatch from there.) WHile squad leaders say "Joe get down behind that rock and face to the rear" or "Bill place the BAR hill and I want you to cover down that trail." However normally on D or even in O situations the PL will pay careful attention to where his crew served weapons are placed and what they're supposed to shoot at. Though unless he is exactly colocated with one of them, once the fight starts he worries about the bigger picture and targetting is left up to crew leaders/team leaders. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Oh beta tester what knowest thou "If I was to make one arty recommendation it would be to allow the scenario designer to purchase TRPs, that would somehow improve the accuracy and more importantly the response time for called fire, even on non observed targets." That's in there. They're in the editor at the bottom near pillboxes etc. They are also used for direct fire reference points ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 D'OHHHHHH!!!! (Not the first time I overlooked something obvious) Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NigelO Posted November 28, 2000 Share Posted November 28, 2000 Didn't see this mentioned so far, so forgive me if it's a repeat: I think it might help with the mechanics of control if a click on the lines of targets/paths could allow selection of source/target unit. I seem to spend a lot of time navigating around the map at various heights and views, and then have to scroll all the way back to the source unit in order to issue/modify commands. If I could just click on the target/path line, it would save some tedium, and probably increase the accuracy of issuing commands. Is this clear? What do you think? N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted November 28, 2000 Share Posted November 28, 2000 LOS ok I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet or no but how about the possibility of implementing a los like steel panthers uses. You click on a unit and all that is visible is brighter and all that is not takes a darker shade. Of course it should be selectable so you would be able to turn it on and off. It was a great tool in SP and I think it was very realistic being able to tell what you could see and what you couldn't. Don't forget that it would show you what you could see within the given sight arc of selected unit. I also liked being able to tell how many enemy units you could see with a counter. I agree that moving the sight bar around for each unit to determine what a unit can see from where they are sitting is very tedious and unrealistic oh well my 2 cents ps: i love the spell checker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceh2 Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 My wish list for CM Combat Mission Korea Combat Mission Sinai Combat mission Vietnam Combat Mission Desert Storm This would be for us arm chair wargamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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